Varnish issues

[Von Calyptra]

I learned years ago that the reason why GW's spray varnish sometimes ruins your models by hazing them gray is humidity - I guess the varnish is trapping water from the air inside it. People seemed to generally recommend Testors Dullcote, but I couldn't find anywhere in my area that sold it, so it just seemed easier to get a barometer and only varnish my models when the humidity was below 40. It was annoying, but for the most part, it worked.
For the most part.
My necromancer that I spent two weeks painting got frosted. So I repainted it, and while I was waiting for the humidity to drop, I spent a bunch of time on converting and painting some dire wolves, which I'm quite proud of. And today, despite my barometer telling me it was safe, the varnish ruined them all. So I threw my spray varnish and my barometer away, and rage ordered some Testors Dullcote. I figure by the time it comes i will have finished painting my necromancer for the third time. :mad2:

My question at the end of this cautionary tale is this: I got the brush on varnish because it seemed safer. Is the Testors spray varnish prone to model ruining the way GW's crap is?

 

[Zephyr]

I personally never had this happen with Dullcote but you should know that the protection from Dullcote is very, very weak. You're better off getting a very thick shiny varnish, leaving it for a day or two and then use the Dullcote. It will take away the shininess and you're models are ready to survive the apocalypse!

I prefer to use Vallejo's brush on varnish; it comes in both matte and shine and protects well enough.

Testors is darn good however and doesn't cloud at all(never heard this happen from anyone else either) but the protection isn't enough for me. Note that if my hands wouldn't be attached to my wrists I would probably drop them as well

 

[Redeyeghoul]

For an ultra matt finish I use the army painter anti shine matt varnish and I live in a high humid area
Stu

 

[Zhatan]

I had a problem with varnish a while ago and posted on these forums about it. I was then recommended I wait longer after painting before I spray the models and that worked for me. I used to spray with GW varnig the same day as I painted them and that was what caused my problems. So now I use GW varnish without any issues.

 

[Von Calyptra]

I had a problem with varnish a while ago and posted on these forums about it. I was then recommended I wait longer after painting before I spray the models and that worked for me. I used to spray with GW varnig the same day as I painted them and that was what caused my problems. So now I use GW varnish without any issues.

No, your models aren't safe! Last night models that had been sitting on my shelf for a week or more waiting to be varnished got fogged, so I don't think waiting is the issue.

 

[Tim]

A friend of min had this fogging problem too, he said he was able to clear it up with a glossy varnish after that you could do a mat again.

 

[Zhatan]

I had a problem with varnish a while ago and posted on these forums about it. I was then recommended I wait longer after painting before I spray the models and that worked for me. I used to spray with GW varnig the same day as I painted them and that was what caused my problems. So now I use GW varnish without any issues.

No, your models aren't safe! Last night models that had been sitting on my shelf for a week or more waiting to be varnished got fogged, so I don't think waiting is the issue.

Hmmm perhaps it has to do with humidity then...
As I live in sweden I rarely have a problem with heat.

 

[Bishop]

Yeah, I don't varnish in the summer months, WAY TOO humid. The rest of the time, it's fine though.

 

[Santawraith]

I've never had any luck with the brush on sealers, they never quite get the right look for me.
I loved how the army painter matte sealer worked, though.

 

[Mad 'At]

I'm soon to try GW varnish on my Cryx battle group but this thread got me worried. This humidity you guys are talking about, is it measured in percent? If so, what percentage would be a good one?

Also should this be considered when spraying black as well? Same guidelines?

 

[Von Calyptra]

I only ever had problems with a GW spray primer once, so I think that's safe.

As for the varnish, I would shoot for under 45% humidity. And I would have two test models: one to actually test on and one to serve as a control. (Because of the time I tested the damn stuff on a bit of painted sprue, thought it was safe, and then ended up with a fogged model anyway.)

It's pretty good varnish when it doesn't wreck your paintjob. :frown:

 

[skullgrl]

I know of some good varnishes from my er, other hobbies. They are used on resin dolls that mainly have been painted with acrylics, sometimes water color paints or pastels. Its good stuff that can last for years and can take some abuse.

Mr Super Clear Matte
Mr Super Clear Matte UV-Cut

You can also find it on sites like Plajapan.com, Hobbywave.com and others if you look around. Volks also has a Japanese/International site as well. A lot of people prefer this in the dolly hobby because of the many problems with Testors being inconsistent and quite weather temperamental. MSC still shouldn't be used in super humid temperatures but its less finicky.

On Volks' website they also have ZM finishing spray which is also nice.

A third option is Tamiya Clear Matte. I have a can that I plan to test out on some models. Eventually...

 

[Von Calyptra]

If nothing else, I like the Mr Super/Mr Hobby name.

I studied oil painting in art school, so I've got plenty of damar varnish kicking around. I'm not sure about putting it on a model. Has anyone tried this? I may attack a test model with it to see what happens. My main reservations have to do with viscosity (or, if I thin it, the effects of the mineral spirits/turp on fluid acrylic model paint) and the tremendous drying time involved.

I bought some Testors Model Master gloss spray varnish (sorry, "lacquer") after the employee at the hobby shop swore up and down that it didn't have serious humidity issues. I've repainted the dire wolves that got ruined, sprayed them it without any problems, let them sit overnight, and then brushed Testors Dullcote over them. Because I have some wolves that I sprayed with GW's purity seal that came out fine, I can compare them directly.

The Dullcote over gloss varnish is not as matte as the GW matte Purity Seal, despite my having applied two coats of Dullcote in some places. The result is slightly satin, with a reflected highlight apparent between the wolves' toes. Still, it's neither shiny or ruined, so I'm not going to complain too much.

But I don't see it as my ultimate varnish solution, so when it runs out I'll try something else and post how it goes (likely Mr Hobby 'cause I like the name). This seems like it might be a useful thread to keep going.

 

[Von Calyptra]

I'm not sure why this didn't happen on the first models I tried it on (possibly because of the purity seal?) but on the next ones, in spite of the intervening coat of gloss varnish, brushing on Testors Dullcote actually lifts paint off the model. (I'm using a soft kolinsky brush to apply it, so it's definitely not the brush. More likely it's the fact that it's a solvent-based varnish.) So it's fired.

How come every varnish I try wrecks my paintjobs?

 

[Tim]

Bad karma?

 

[Von Calyptra]

Bad karma?

You may be right. I'll have to plot my frequency of varnish problems over time against my frequency of rescuing kittens to see if there's a correlation.

 

[skullgrl]

Bad karma?

You may be right. I'll have to plot my frequency of varnish problems over time against my frequency of rescuing kittens to see if there's a correlation.

I find that certain varnishes/lacquers lift paint away as well. As I was cackling, and putting the finishing touches on my zombies (glowing eyes) I realized that the clear varnish lift away the painted "glow" I had going on.

You have to really watch the ingredients in anything you spray/paint on the finished models. One thing I never liked about Testors is if you look in their MSDS you'll see it contains acetone and isopropyl alcohol both of which strip paint. Acetone also has the nasty habit of pitting resin.

On another note, it also says that prolonged skin exposure leads to defatting of the skin...

I can test out my Tamiya Flat spray tonight or tomorrow on one of my less important zombies or my necromancer.

 

[Von Calyptra]

At least I'm not just messing up my paintjobs. I'm messing up my paintjobs FOR SCIENCE!

A friend of min had this fogging problem too, he said he was able to clear it up with a glossy varnish after that you could do a mat again.

I tried this on part of an ex-roommate's dreadnaught that got frosted really bad. I wasn't expecting it to, but it actually worked! Mostly. The worst areas were unaffected, and no amount of reapplication of gloss seemed to do much about it. So I'd say this is a technique that works unless the frosting is really bad.

New observations:

I've noticed that models sprayed with the Testors gloss varnish will be very slightly sticky to the touch days later. This has me nervous.

I bought some Mr Super Clear.

It smells godawful horrible. So do all spray varnishes, of course, but this is a new and different godawful horrible that will take some getting used to.
The label, including what I assume are the cautionary bits, is entirely in Japanese, which is a little worrisome. I wondered briefly if I should be wearing my respirator while applying it, but then I remembered that I converted my respirator into an LED cyber mask for Burning Man. Oops.

Having said all of that, based on the three models I've sprayed it on so far, I think this stuff is awesome. I don't like gloss varnishes because the reflected highlights on the shine obscure detail on the model, so I use matte. The trouble with the matte varnishes that I've tried is that they tend to mute the chroma of very dark tones. So far, and three models is a very small sample size, Mr Super Clear hasn't done that, which is very exciting.

 

[skullgrl]

At least I'm not just messing up my paintjobs. I'm messing up my paintjobs FOR SCIENCE!

A friend of min had this fogging problem too, he said he was able to clear it up with a glossy varnish after that you could do a mat again.

I tried this on part of an ex-roommate's dreadnaught that got frosted really bad. I wasn't expecting it to, but it actually worked! Mostly. The worst areas were unaffected, and no amount of reapplication of gloss seemed to do much about it. So I'd say this is a technique that works unless the frosting is really bad.

New observations:

I've noticed that models sprayed with the Testors gloss varnish will be very slightly sticky to the touch days later. This has me nervous.

I bought some Mr Super Clear.

It smells godawful horrible. So do all spray varnishes, of course, but this is a new and different godawful horrible that will take some getting used to.
The label, including what I assume are the cautionary bits, is entirely in Japanese, which is a little worrisome. I wondered briefly if I should be wearing my respirator while applying it, but then I remembered that I converted my respirator into an LED cyber mask for Burning Man. Oops.

Having said all of that, based on the three models I've sprayed it on so far, I think this stuff is awesome. I don't like gloss varnishes because the reflected highlights on the shine obscure detail on the model, so I use matte. The trouble with the matte varnishes that I've tried is that they tend to mute the chroma of very dark tones. So far, and three models is a very small sample size, Mr Super Clear hasn't done that, which is very exciting.

Yep for these kinds of sprays and spray paints and just about anything else such as that you should be wearing a respirator of some sort. Not to mention resin. Its dust particles like to settle in our lungs and slowly choke us to death, although I have been assured that GW fine cast is formulated to not be as harmful. Forgeworld's resin isn't like that however.

I've read about other people having stickiness issue's as well and that its usually an over application/just the Testor's being fussy.

I'm glad that the MSC is working out for you.

 

[Mr Saturday]

I have never used spray varnish for the reasons you're stating. I use Windsor & Newton or Daler Rowney brush on gloss and matt varnish. I leave a painted model for 24 hours, at least. Then a coat of gloss, let dry for another 24 hours, then 1 or more coats of matt, depending on how much it takes to quieten down the gloss. I use thin coats, and a dedicated varnish brush, and I have never had any issues with fogging, stickiness or anything else.

 

[Von Calyptra]

I'm pretty certain Winsor & Newton and Daler Rowney sell more than one type of varnish. Are these intended for acrylics or oils or what? They're not damar, are they?

 

[Mr Saturday]

Of course aye, both sell a huge range.

I use Windsor & Newton Galeria water based Gloss Varnish. They do a good matt as well, but I find Daler-Rowney oil-based Matt varnish to have a really nice matt finish over gloss in less coats, you just need to make sure and stir the bejesus out of it before you use it. Both are designed for acrylics, but obviously you need white spirits to clean the oil-based matt off your brush. I've used these for years, and I haven't lost a single mini to fogging. They gloss/matt combo is very durable too. The oldest of the minis in my current armies have been in use almost ten years, and I had two minor chips in all that time.

 

[The Keeper]

I personally have had no trouble with the GW purity seal. The fogging problem (blooming) is caused by the conditions where u are spraying, usually when it is to cold or humid, the gases used as propellents for the aerosol starting to condense before it hits the model trapping the moisture. Before i spray/ varnish i per-heat the room i am working in to about 20c and fingers crossed so far ive had no issues. Hope this helps