VC against Deamons, WE, DE

[Abh0rash]

I have a tourney in a little bit over a month. Some armies that I've seen being listed are Deamons, Wood Elves, and Dark Elves. These are armies that I haven't faced with my Vampire Counts quite yet.

I'm not particularly concerned with the Wood Elves as I can just replenish my ranks with magic, but I'm slightly worried about tree kin and dryads (just cause I believe they might cause fear)

The army that I'm most concerned with is a Deamons list. What is it that I'll most likely face that will be hard to counter? Any suggestions about sending kind of army back to their own Realm?

Oh, and just to give an idea of what kind of armies that I might be facing, the tourney is limited to lists of 1500 pts.

Below is the list that I'm thinking about brining (mostly because I have the models...and because I think some things might not be expected at 1500pts)

Vampire
vampire powers
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the Dead
magic items
Helm of Commandment
The Cadaverous Cuirass (just for some kind of armor)

Necromancer
-Black Periapt

Wight King (Battle Standard Bearer)
-Banner of the Dead Legion (x2 US)

21 Zombies w/ cmd

20 Skeletons w/ Spears & cmd

18 Skeletons w/ cmd

15 Grave Guard w/ cmd & The Banner of the Barrows

5 Blood Knights w/ cmd & The Flag of Blood Keep

I don't think many people would expect Blood Knights at that level, and I'm pretty confident that they could go through most of the things that they face (especially if I get the charge...which I should unless I screw something up)

Let me know what you think!

 

[Mawpit]

Yes, Treekin and Dryads do cause fear, treemen cause terror (like VC care) Also be aware that they are immune to psychology as are wardancers. I cant really advise you much on the other armies as Im mainly a wood elf player. As a WE player I think Id be pretty happy to see BloodKnights on the board as I have lots of ways to deal with them.
1) Waywatchers, marchblocking and killing blow.
2) Alter noble in the flank...actually as you wont take a break test this is not so good but you could still lose 2 fairly easily.
3) Great Eagle or Glade riders baiting and fleeing.

Waywatchers can be got best by blocking the LOS or direct damage spells. Panic them away. Combat is not the best idea as they will likely be in the trees and it will tie up the unit you send. Though zombies might work well.
Alternoble can hurt but mostly relies on breaking you in the first turn. This would pobably come with another flank charge and you can kill him in the second round of combat.
The thing I would be most worried about is 400 points of BloodKnights being lured into trees or off the board by a 50 pt great eagle. Frenzy could get you lead around the board and into difficult situations. I strongly suggest some Dire Wolves to sit in front and stop the BK charging things you dont want them to untill you are ready. Also be aware that fleeing is a normal reaction for WE non-ItP troops and that a charge could get you stuck where you dont want to be.

A decent woodelf player knows that ongoing combats will generally end badly for them. WE rely on multiple charges causing mass casualties stopping attacks back and removing static CR. Wardancers in the front of a unit and Wildriders in the side (both immune to psychology) will really spoil your day. You will have standard, maybe outnumber they have flank, standard plus more wounds than you. Keep piling on the IoNs and you should be good.
Block their movement with lots of zombie units and guard your flanks.
Hope that was helpful.

 

[Abh0rash]

That was definitely helpful, I haven't ever thought of using dire wolves to block my own line of sight so that my blood knights don't charge off into the middle of a forest.

The armies that I have been used to playing with my VC are Dwarves and Ogre Kingdoms. Since Dwarves don't ever move generally, and Ogre Kingdoms want to get in combat just as much as I do, I haven't had problems with the whole baiting frenzied units.

In general I'm not worried about my army getting shot up, since I'll be able to rez things back, but the immune to psychology and baiting give me cause to worry.

Thanks again for your input, I think I may add a unit of dire wolves and make some modifications.

 

[Abh0rash]

Let me know if you think the changes are for better or for worse. Any comments would be greatly appreciated

Vampire - 190pts
VPark Acolyte &Lord of the Dead
MI:The Cadaverous Curiass &Helm of Commandment

Vampire - 190pts (General)
VPark Acolyte &Lord of the Dead
MI:The Flayed Hauberk &Black Periapt

Wight King (Battle Standard Bearer)
MI: Sword of Battle

21 Zombies

10 Skeleton Warriors - spears & full cmd

11 Skeleton Warriors - hw/shield & full cmd

5 Dire Wolves (screen/baiting protection for Blood Knights)

15 Grave Guard - full cmd & The Banner of the Barrows

5 Blood Knights - full cmd & The Flag of the Blood Keep

Changes from previous list:
-reduced the number of skeletons in each unit
-took out the necromancer and replaced it with a vampire
-added a unit of Dire Wolves
-gave battle standard bearer a magic weapon instead of banner
- +1 Cast Dice

 

[Mawpit]

Looks pretty good to me.
I would just like to point out that the BSB no longer gets killing blow if hes using a magic weapon. Thats not really a worry for wood elves as they dont normally have armour saves but for your other armies you might want it.

 

[bebopasorus]

Wight King (Battle Standard Bearer)
MI: Sword of Battle

Wright king can use XHW for 8 points, lose 1 armor save, BUT 1 more zombie. alternatively can you drop 1 skeleton and have sword of battle and XHW for 3+1+1 attacks? also you lose parry w/ SoM so 15 points for 3+1 attack and 5+1 armor for a model worth 90+25+100 points i like parry WK at 3+ save is nice 4 is only 50/50.

 

[Bigpig]

You might actually be better to give the wight king the extra hand weapon and the Flayed Hauberk. Then armor wont be an issue and you still get the extra attack while retaining killing blow

 

[bebopasorus]

magic armor = no battle standard, well - er +1 cr and 1 less crumble, but no hell fire or whatever else you run- just be aware.

 

[tailzZz]

magic armor = no battle standard, well - er +1 cr and 1 less crumble, but no hell fire or whatever else you run- just be aware.

Common magic items can be used upto the characters allowance with the battle standard.

When you make it a magical battle standard then he gets his common magic items waived.

 

[Abh0rash]

Wright king can use XHW for 8 points, lose 1 armor save, BUT 1 more zombie. alternatively can you drop 1 skeleton and have sword of battle and XHW for 3+1+1 attacks? also you lose parry w/ SoM so 15 points for 3+1 attack and 5+1 armor for a model worth 90+25+100 points i like parry WK at 3+ save is nice 4 is only 50/50.

Well, I know that if you take a magic sword + and extra hand weapon that you don't get the extra attack for having 2 hand weapons. You only get those bonuses for mundane weapons. Same thing with the whole hand weapon and shield bonus +1 armor save.

You might actually be better to give the wight king the extra hand weapon and the Flayed Hauberk. Then armor wont be an issue and you still get the extra attack while retaining killing blow

This would be pretty sick, although I think I'd rather give the flayed hauberk to my general, but here is the question. If I give him the extra hand weapon, then I don't get to use him as a battle standard bearer. Is it more useful to have him potentially kill lots of things? Or give +1 CR and 1 less wound when I lose combats.

I think that in a larger game, putting a wight lord with 2 hand weapons in a grave guard squad with the banner of the barrows would carve through most enemies pretty well.

 

[bebopasorus]

Well, I know that if you take a magic sword + and extra hand weapon that you don't get the extra attack for having 2 hand weapons. You only get those bonuses for mundane weapons. Same thing with the whole hand weapon and shield bonus +1 armor save.

that seems slightly at odds w/ konrads rules, and the GW FAQ about how much of your own ass he can hand to you(3- base + 1- XHW +1- Frenzy + X RF). while certainly one cant compare special chars w/ BIYC but i don't know, i need like a page reference to believe that.

 

[Aegis]

page 56, and page 121 respectively, Konrad is an exception to the rule