VC against High Elves

[Aren]

Kill those High Elves.....................

sorry, got a bit carried away... so yeah, watch out for sword masters of hoeth, we have a mighty little that could stand up to them, try to get them to fight a large group of zombies, something like 100 and keep raising them. DO NOT LET YOUR GOOD GUYS GET KILLED BY SWORD MASTERS.

 

[Cobra7]

Kill those High Elves.....................

sorry, got a bit carried away... so yeah, watch out for sword masters of hoeth, we have a mighty little that could stand up to them, try to get them to fight a large group of zombies, something like 100 and keep raising them. DO NOT LET YOUR GOOD GUYS GET KILLED BY SWORD MASTERS.

Not a good idea.

Sword masters WS 6, S5, A2(3 champ) FC vs zombies. First combat 11.84 dead zombies (12) and .81 dead sword masters (1). Loose combat by 11, thats 23 dead zombies every turn. IoN is D6+4=7.5 average, useing 2 dice is 12 dice to almost bring them back to full, not counting dispells. If the HE player is smart they will sacrifice a rank to go 7 wide and get an extra 6 attacks making 16.26 dead zombies (16) with CR loosing 30 dead zombies a turn, needing 16+ dice to keep them up every magic phase.

So 20 sword masters with FC cost 330, 100 zombies no command cost 400 points, assuming combat started the start of turn 3, the sword masters might be held up for 2 full turns, meaning that they should still have 2 turns to cause havoc, earned their points, and lost maybe 45 points.

30 ghouls costs 240, and should do 14 wounds in 2 full turns leaving 6 left, plus get much better RoI on buffs on ghouls than on zombies.

 

[TheNosferatu]

Seems no one has mentioned the most important unit VC have against High Elves... GHOULS! :zombie:

Every HE player I know loathes them because they're T4. Their core will struggle against any T4 opponents and add in the poisoned attacks and extra attacks and you're in business. As has been said already his troops are very expensive so if you can occupy at least every unit of his core with a unit of your Ghouls you will be very competitive.

Oh and most HE players I've seen aren't putting that much faith in Swordsmasters in the 8th ed (apparently they're overpriced...?) it's White Lions you need to watch out for!

 

[Aren]

Soz, forgot about the special un-dead thing with losing combat. So do we have nothing against swordmasters? I was thinking something on the lines of wraiths but they cost loads and I don't know if the swordmasters have magical attacks.

 

[Count Lasombra]

If the SM champ has the amulet of light the unit will have magical attacks.This is unlikely,usually this item is given to dragon princes.But don't be surprised.
SM are golden vs. VC do to lack of shooting.WL are stubborn,and str 6 instead of 5,but winning combat w/ SM is not that hard.
If your foe has a block of SM stall/redirect/avoid it if possible.Magic/ethereals will help alot if you can get them into contact.Don't meet them head on,they may put you back in the dirt.

 

[Luna Mortis]

I'm about to face HE for the first time and ASF will be a problem as I tend to play more combat vamps than magic. I'm going to change plans and proxy some more ghouls in for this as I can really see the benefit against his lower S. BTW is there anyway you can nullify ASF?

 

[Aren]

Not that I know. Nightshroud is the only thing thatd does that in VC as far as im concerned. Try using really tough but cheap units a.k.a. the exact opposite of High Elf units. Ghouls and so on. The problem is that you have to survive his turn of combat and then deal enough damage so that he wont crush you next turn.

 

[_Revan_]

Vanhel's Danse is going to be (as usual) a key spell. Giving your units Always Strikes First will allow you to strike at the same time and negate their re-rolls. However, you will still get your re-rolls as you get it seperately from the Always Strikes First.

So with a heavy application of Vanhels, you will take away one of the High Elves greatest advantages. While you don't exactly negate their Speed of Asuryan, you level the playing field.

I agree that Ghouls would be quite useful, as most Elves are lightly armored. That is the main reason many High Elves players (at least in my area) don't take Swordmasters often. Phoenix Guard have their 4+ Ward save to keep them around, and White Lions are stronger, Stubborn and have a better save vs shooting (not that iteffects us).

 

[Luna Mortis]

Thanks for the advise will also outfit one hero vamp like what Lord Fear put at the top of this page and see how many necromancers with Vanhels I can throw in and magic heavy vamp for IoN and keep him at the back.

 

[Aren]

I would suggest also one lord/hero vamp with frostbalde and generally good armour and wings to take down those dragons. They guy who will do that will need nightshroud (obvious reasons) frostbalde (for dragon) wristband of black gold (bolt thrower and such) and the banner of the dead legion, then, he/she is unstopable.

 

[Count Lasombra]

@Aren-You must be kidding,right?

 

[Aren]

why?

 

[Lord Fear]

Because you forgot the Scarecrow Banner, obviously :devil2:

 

[Aren]

Scarecrow banner, oh, that one..... . I think the lord is rather good. Double strenght. unstopable weapon. goes first. good against shooting. What else do you need to take down a dragon?

 

[Count Lasombra]

Don't forget the Terrifying mask of EEEE!!,so you won't be scared of the dragon .

 

[Aren]

Seriously, this guy could kill the dragon. Although if there was a mask of EEEE!! id take it.

 

[Count Lasombra]

There is =BRB pg.505.

 

[Lord Fear]

All right, Aren, if you're serious, then you might want to check out your rulebook for some important facts about taking magic items. If you're just playing around let's stop it now otherwise the thread could end up very silly but not very helpful

 

[Aren]

Oh right, its in BRB, that clears most things up.

 

[Aren]

Frostblade is a must though against monsters from my point of view.

 

[Cobra7]

Frostblade is a must though against monsters from my point of view.

From my experence, it's only worth it unless you can put it on a 2nd Lord.

The Frostblade is 100 points, meaning you can NOT take any other magic items such as the Nightshroud armor or that 3+ ward vs shooting.

Best you can hope for is 4+ armor and 4+ regen which a dragons breath weapon will negate if used in CC. So a dragon (lets say S5) will leave you with a 6+ armor and no regen and wound you on 3+, not good odds. Plus the prince will strike first, with S 4-7 (depending on weapon) with 4-7 attacks (again, depending on weapon), reroll hits, possibly reroll wounds.

Plus the thought of taking a Frostblade vs HE in the off chance they have a dragon is silly as well as your more likely going to get into it with 1W models, making your sword next to useless. Plus add onto the fact it's considered bad sportsmanship to tailor a list to your opponents army.

I mean no insult, but this post may be up for years to come and it wouldn't be a good idea to give new people googling this the wrong idea

After all, thats how I found this site.

 

[Count Lasombra]

@ Lord Fear-You're right.I was only being absurd.
On Topic- I'd probably kamikaze a VG at the enemy AM.Summon zombie lines in front of his missile infantry/ rbt's.Ghouls obviously are a pain in his core,so to speak.I'd leave the ethereals at home,they stand a good chance of being hammered into oblivion by DP w/ AOL.
Big blocks IMHO are the best way to nueter a dragon...steadfast hurts.
I wouldn't expect a dragon list to be the best in this format anyway,TLOS and improved shooting and artillery rules,on top of steadfast....the stardragon is not what it used to be.Your opponent taking a dragon may even benefit you.It IS an enormous points sink.
I would take a vamp w/ FL(shadows) and use the hex that reduces strength to weaken their troops.
HE's greatest strength(aside from magic),is the ability to strike first from great distance with high strength attacks.Str 3 SM against toughness 4 ghouls is a joke,and even skellies may shut them down.HEX FTW.
Obviously this will be much harder to do than to say,just my advice.

 

[Luna Mortis]

As I'm going to be taking ghouls wouldn't the ghoul kin VP be good so that I can get them in faster? I was going to drop my Varghulf out of the army but his movement might help. In my case I don't think I'll be facing a dragon...

 

[Aren]

I didnt kno about the EEEEEE rule : ) because I dont have the BRB (yet). What about the banner, the banner of the dead legion? Team Him with GG or Blood Knights and away he goes.

 

[Cobra7]

As I'm going to be taking ghouls wouldn't the ghoul kin VP be good so that I can get them in faster? I was going to drop my Varghulf out of the army but his movement might help. In my case I don't think I'll be facing a dragon...

Ghoulkin isn't bad, but you need to remember that useing that ability will get your ghouls way out in front of your infantry backup. There are advantages and disadvantages to this, but remember your ghouls will be fighting by themselves at first. Also vs high elves you can NOT count on getting spells off.