VC can only be run as a deathstar?

[ZombieJoe]

I have seen the light! Or...rather, the darkness. I've been playing around with smaller units and was very pleased with the results. My 25 man unit of ghouls did a fair job of keeping 42 men at arms at bay. It goes to show that its more a matter of target priority. You got to be aware of what you are attacking.

 

[ZombieJoe]

I have seen the light! Or...rather, the darkness. I've been playing around with smaller units and was very pleased with the results. My 25 man unit of ghouls did a fair job of keeping 42 men at arms at bay. It goes to show that its more a matter of target priority. You got to be aware of what you are attacking.

 

[coeur]

Original Question. No. Deathstar not necessary

BTW, to the dude who suggested obsidian amulet with lichebone banner. im afraid MR cannot stack, you use the highest value. I too tried that trick once

 

[theonetruedonut]

well, crap. still, a lord with bracers in a unit with the lichebone banner is still pretty hard to snipe, what with the 2+ ward save and all

 

[Crovax Accendant Evincar]

I would definatly say no you don't need to run a deathstar with vamps to be successful,I've never ran one and I still win nearly al my games,a deathstar is just to easy to destroy or hold up,let's say you have your graveguard,with drakenhoff,vamp lord,the full trimmings,now someone engages them with say 100 skaven slaves or 100 gobbos,your unit is now grinding it's way through that unit,don't get me wrong it won't be long till said unit breaks/destroyed and whe this is happening your getting circled and outmanoeuvred

One of our strengths is being able to cast our necro spells over and over,so why waste the extra manoeuvrability of van hels on just one unit,multiple threats are always better than one,we are good at anvil and hammer tactics but this can't work if you only have two units compared to your enemies multiple

 

[ZombieJoe]

I've played a few games these last few weeks without running death stars, and I must say that my initial impression was wrong. I used 25 man unit of ghouls and was pleased with the result. I still take the Hoff and place next to my lord but I don't do it with a 50 block of ghouls. I also spread out my characters and it does work out pretty well.

 

[Crovax Accendant Evincar]

Thats the way to do it glad your enjoying playing you army a different way,that's one of my favourite things about our army,it's a lot more flexible than a lot of people think and you shouldn't discount things until you try it yourself

 

[Forge]

Well stated Zeleck.

The tricky part of IoN spamming has always been the rule that you need a total casting min value of 3. That isnt a new rule, its always been there. The new rule is that if you fail, your casting turn is done.

but that is why Necromancers come out of the box at 55 points with IoN.

So you make sure you got enough of them to get the job done. Besides, with spells like Fate of Bjuna out there to snipe casters, i wouldnt rely on just one caster who is responsible for keeping my army up. Too easy to lose that guy now.

nahh, its the fact that casters now share a pool of dice that is randomly generated from 2-12.

that and the Lvl 4 wizard sitting on the other end of the equation adding his lvl to the dispel attempt of your lvl 1 casters IoN castings.

if you rely on magic to win you the game you will lose 50% of your games, all my losses were due to me counting on magic to win me the game and i flubbed it.

survivability trumps raising dead units any day hence a death star, adding a regen banner to a unit a death star does not make, throwing a bunch of low cost characters or high cost characters into a unit is a death star, i rarely use death stars, but I NEVER use small units because they will get obliterated.

 

[ZombieJoe]

That is the way I felt too. But you don't have to invest in that much in magic or in the death star to make VC work. That is the misleading thing that I thought. True, you can't count on magic. If you do, its over. But we do have the numbers and some pretty descent units to fight with. The issue is making sure that your 20-30 ghouls attack the right unit. But I always still take the HOFF on at least one. It's too good not to take.

The key strategy to employ is to start the game with an actual army. You can't min the number of units you bring and hope to make more. Bring a real fighting force and if the magic winds are kind you will get that nice buff to make em every deadlier.

 

[Danceman]

I've grown fond of 5 wide units. This is because if my opponent run hordes, have fun having half a unit not doing anything at all while I have more ranks are more likely to pull off easy multicharges... While at the same time my opponent has to move around his own huge unit in order to get to me. Huzzah for clumbersome formations, I say. Wraiths/spirit hosts are useful for this purpose as well as most units does not have magic attacks and thus a unit of wraiths will provide extra CR while giving up none in return. I've yet to experience my wraiths "being blow away by magic" with little to no effort on my opponents side. Since the Helm of Commandment is easier to negate(thanks to the FAQ) and bigger units = fewer units I've come to "rely" on necromancers with VDM to beef up my units with ASF and re-rolls.

So Deathstar units are not a must but large units are. Smaller units only forces you to "panic raise" models in order not to lose the unit which in turn ruins the rest of your magic phase.

Much for the same reason I use knights in 4x2 formation. I am not expected any ranks and I lose very little offence while gaining a lot survivability due to less models striking back. Since I use, for the most part, 5 wide units with a gazillion ranks all their kills matter as my opponent is likely have less ranks and therefor not stubborn.
So basically, combo-charge and completely ruin one unit at a time is the name of the game, least in my approach. Hence the reason for me opting for less width in my units.

 

[spagg]

I am newer to Fantasy and have been wondering what a Deathstar is? I can't find the topic so I thought I would ask here.

Thanks

 

[TMS]

A deathstar is simply a unit that you've spent a lot (and often the majority) of your points on alone, counting both model size, added items and housed characters. It works on the principle that the enemy will have to deal with the combined fighting power of the deathstar in order to gain any victory points from it, which is a tall order for many armies - 'regular' units and strategies will find it hard to best the focused fighting force that a deathstar can bring. The new rulebook lores of magic have gotten much more adept at handling large units and deathstars though, so fielding one comes with more risks than it used to.

 

[spagg]

A deathstar is simply a unit that you've spent a lot (and often the majority) of your points on alone, counting both model size, added items and housed characters. It works on the principle that the enemy will have to deal with the combined fighting power of the deathstar in order to gain any victory points from it, which is a tall order for many armies - 'regular' units and strategies will find it hard to best the focused fighting force that a deathstar can bring. The new rulebook lores of magic have gotten much more adept at handling large units and deathstars though, so fielding one comes with more risks than it used to.

Thanks for replying!!

 

[Astorre]

Well call me crazy but....
In two weeks I am playing Teclis for the first time, and the guy playing them is using his ard boys list. Its basically supposed to be a "get a beatdown & learn from it" deal, and I'm writing a list as if I was going to ard boys tomorrow & didn't know what I'd be facing. But I'm trying a deathstar approach....
10 Blood Knights w/ Banner of Blood Keep
Mounted Wight King w/ Drakenhof
Vampire Lord w/ Blood Drinker, ect.
Vampire Lord Lv4 w/ Walking Death, MR2, Staff of Damnation
Might try to fit in Aura of Dark Majesty as well.
Rest of my army is a Black Coach, PSun vamp, Vamp w/ Ghoulkin, Dispel Scroll, Flayed Hauberk, 50 Ghouls, 49 ghouls w/Ghast.
The Blood Knight unit will have:
SCR 4
Blood Drinker
Regen
4++ against all shooting, magic missles
Magic Resistance 2
Staff of Damnation
maybe Aura of Dark Majesty
and then I'll have the PSun bomb, and a Black Coach sucking PD. And good luck dealing with those deep Ghoul units, and I have a dispel scroll tucked away just in case.

 

[Forge]

Well call me crazy but....
In two weeks I am playing Teclis for the first time, and the guy playing them is using his ard boys list. Its basically supposed to be a "get a beatdown & learn from it" deal, and I'm writing a list as if I was going to ard boys tomorrow & didn't know what I'd be facing. But I'm trying a deathstar approach....
10 Blood Knights w/ Banner of Blood Keep
Mounted Wight King w/ Drakenhof
Vampire Lord w/ Blood Drinker, ect.
Vampire Lord Lv4 w/ Walking Death, MR2, Staff of Damnation
Might try to fit in Aura of Dark Majesty as well.
Rest of my army is a Black Coach, PSun vamp, Vamp w/ Ghoulkin, Dispel Scroll, Flayed Hauberk, 50 Ghouls, 49 ghouls w/Ghast.
The Blood Knight unit will have:
SCR 4
Blood Drinker
Regen
4++ against all shooting, magic missles
Magic Resistance 2
Staff of Damnation
maybe Aura of Dark Majesty
and then I'll have the PSun bomb, and a Black Coach sucking PD. And good luck dealing with those deep Ghoul units, and I have a dispel scroll tucked away just in case.

looks like your going to lose a break point scenario, you have to much dumped into the blood knight unit its good without the lvl 4 vamp lord, drop the banner of blood keep or keep it and move your wight king to a ghoul unit.

 

[Astorre]

Yeah I gotta work on the characters a bit, its gonna be funny though when I drop that unit on the table haha if we roll the banners scenario I'm in trouble all he gotta do is kill the WK or the General & I'm finished but its always good to try new things. I kind of want to dump most of my points in that unit & make it redundant like Regen & BoBK just because well good luck taking them out.....