VC Playing Style

[MMMMK]

Hi,

I'm a potential new VC player and I have a question for you folks:

What would you say the VC army plays like? As in, what is its playing style?

I'm a longtime lurker of WFB but have never played, so I know the basics of the army and I even know most of the rules. My concern with the vampire counts army (besides some of the models!) is that they are a little tactically light because they cannot flee, have no shooting phase, and have a greater margin of error because of their ability to raise dead units. Am I over simplifying things?

I do like the fluff that I've created for a potential VC army and I've seen some good conversion candidates in other armies, so my only concern in playing VC is that their playstyle does not suit me.

Also in the running for my army choice are WE and Brets, if that makes a difference to you guys.

Thanks

 

[Ophidicus]

Erm.... yes, that sums up the drawbacks. If the play-style doesn't suit & the aesthetic isn't enough to win you over you may very well be better off with another army. You suggest Wood Elves & Bretonnians, both of which are very different to VC, WE have the advantage of great manoeuvrability and excellent shooting, neither of which VC possess, & Brets have very strong charges but limited ability in prolonged combats, whereas VC regiments are best in static fights where combat resolution counts for more than pure killing potential. That said, VC can field some dangerous cavalry units, but not to anything like the extent that Brets can.

 

[MMMMK]

Let me rephrase what I'm trying to get at-

How straight forward is the VC playing style? Do you find yourself just pushing everything forward and getting into combat as quickly as possible? How much maneuvering do you find yourself doing during battles?

I'm worried that the army would get a bit boring to play with, that it might be too simple to use. Am I getting the wrong idea?

Thanks

P.S. I'm in no way trying to insult the VC army, I do think it's pretty cool overall.

 

[Count Lasombra]

There is alot more manuevering to playing VC than you would think.Since all combats are to the death the relative positiong of your units becomes enormously important.You have to be coordinated,you need good matchups and countermeasures during deployment.Placement of vampire characters and models is crucial.It is an unforgiving army,theres no fleeing and rallying--if you let yourself be outmatched you are destroyed where you stand. Summoning zombies to impede the enemy is an art and requires very tactful positioning.If this is your very first army it may be better for you to play an army with psychology.You will need a good understanding of the effects of psychology and how to exploit it if you plan to play with dead things:skull:

 

[chefsdad]

I have played daemons, dark elves, skaven, wood elves, and dabbled with ogres, lizardmen and high elves before vc.

Vc are not easy to play, and there are varying styles of play available. They cant flee, have no real nasty offensive spells, and cant shoot, which makes it difficult to deal with certain things.

However, of all the armies ive played i love vc the most, and whilst it was a steep learning curve, they are incredibly rewarding to use once you get the hang of them.

If you like the look of the army, go for it. Im not the best player (in fact far from it!) But if you would like a run down of different builds/themes/tactics, please feel free to pm me, and im sure there are far better players on the forum that will gladly offer the same.

 

[Morfius]

Umm, don't Vampires have ALL the really nasty and offensive spells? (with forbidden lore)

 

[waaanial00]

So the best word to describe combat with VC is grind, we meat(less) grind better than most armies.

That said its not like we just throw our units into unwinnable combats to avoid shooting casualties. For the most part our army is slow and cumbersome, however thats not to say that all VC are like that.

Whilst our core builds are relatively predictable, there is great scope for flexibility if you chose to do a themed army. Most of all though given that our armies are made up of dead things you can practically use any other Warhammer models to represent the vast majority of our units, making a rather fun approach to building an army.

In terms of Magic might I think we borrow well from the BRB and have a solid lore for ourselves. Our own lore is quite balanced in my opinion, a good mix of restorative powers alongside some offensive ones. Couple I dont like but meh.

I think the lack of options means we have to try harder, never being able to flee means we have to be smart with our placement all the time and cannot bait in the same way as others. Not having ranged means we place more emphasis on restoring our loses or develop tactics to reduce the damage and survive without recklessly charging.

Still on the face of it the army looks a little one dimensional, especially with the fickle nature of Magic. However its a great fun army to run, I either crumble to dust or wreck without real loss. There are some awful tactics you can pull to really break the opponent or you can just build a list to slog it out.

Hell you can even run a 100 model unit for 400 points, this unit can be buffed to high heaven or left to be rotting flesh without a clue. I dont know any other army which can make its rubbish 4 point models fight at S10, WS7, ASF.

Still if you like cavalry charges go bret, if you want shooting go elves (dark would be my suggestion). Theres really so much to chose from that if you dont think you will like it you probably arent suited. Its a big investment and you should only do so if you are going to enjoy it.

 

[Johnny B]

I'm worried that the army would get a bit boring to play with, that it might be too simple to use. Am I getting the wrong idea?

It is a fiction promulgated by snooty Elf players that VCs are simple to use, presumably as an excuse for why their razor sharp tactics failed.
VCs lack many of the options of living armies, but have their own way around problems and also have unique methods that no other army can employ. There's some seriously sneaky moves you can pull with this army

How straight forward is the VC playing style? Do you find yourself just pushing everything forward and getting into combat as quickly as possible? How much maneuvering do you find yourself doing during battles?

If you just rush into combat with everything, you'll learn not to do that again very fast As a VCs player you want 1-2 combats active at any one time, so you can pour all your magic and support abilities into them; this is where the 7th ed 'omg broken VCs' reputation came from: people who allowed this to happen and didn't get it. If you just fight the enemy one on one, your troops will lose, as they are undead and generally average to awful in melee. The approach you end up taking is very different to living armies; I've recently started Dark Elves, and they are soooooooooo easy to use compared to VCs its unbelievable.

To top it all off, VCs are now considered a weaker army, so they should provide a challenge for you.

 

[Onikaigo]

Well, honestly there's not much to add to what other people have already mentioned (Johnny B, waaanial00), but lemme see if I can spin it differently.


Vampires are a very thoughtful faction. Because they can't flee from a combat, if you start one it -must- end with one unit being wiped out, so it's very important in every phase of the game, and pregame. Deployment is -huge-. We have a few ways to correct it post deployment, but making sure you're power unit or tarpit is in the right position is paramount. VC are definitely not for those that don't have their thinking caps on.

I, personally, have seen several different kinds of VC.

1)Slow and steady. They eat one/two enemy unit at a time, stall/delay the rest of the army, and pick apart their opponent with roadblocks, tarpits, spells, and 2 on 1 combats. My preferred playing style.

2) All in VC. Blood Knight Deathstar (Pre 8'th), huge footslogging Grave Guard deathstar (Post and Pre-8'th), and their different flavors. These basically smash through a lot of things, but require incredible control and forethought on where the deathstar -will- be, and how it can get to where it needs to be. Tactical, but a little dry/vulnerable to my tastes.

3) Sit back and overpower. This one is fun if you can pull it off. Requires a heavy magic build, and you basically amass troops to such an extent that an opposing army is quickly overmatched in points! Grow your skeletons/ghouls/dogs/bats to ridiculous sizes (In friendly games I've had 25 Dogs in one unit, 90 skeletons, 100+ zombies...) and just laugh as you continue raising your forces. Just don't let your general blow up, and you still have to realize; undead troops suck. You still need to pick combats, but the look on your opponents face is priceless!

Ok, ok, that third category isn't quite a legitimate one, but something for fun games. Still, it had to be mentioned. There are more types of playstyles than this of course, but this is generally what I've seen done.

 

[Aren]

Epic link Onikaigo, about the tactics: what do deathstar units go well with? If I take a massive unit of GG then would something manuverable go with it, like the undead wolves? o.o

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

.... That said, VC can field some dangerous cavalry units, but not to anything like the extent that Brets can.

Factoring pure killing power I would say our Blood Knights over power anything that Brets have to offer by a lot.

 

[Ophidicus]

I did use the word 'extent' to imply quantity... we can fit 1-2 BK units into a regular army, Brets can have numerous cavalry squadrons backed up by characters.

Dangerous, yes, extensive, no.

'sides, that was weeks ago.

Oh-woah.

 

[Aramoro]

.... That said, VC can field some dangerous cavalry units, but not to anything like the extent that Brets can.

Factoring pure killing power I would say our Blood Knights over power anything that Brets have to offer by a lot.

As a long time Bret player I would say Blood Knights are roughly equivalent to Grail Knights except more expensive. Taking equal pointed units I would expect the Grail Knights to win, that I5 is really annoying. Depends who gets the Charge I guess, Brets get it your Blood Knights get wiped, Blood Knights get it then it's going to be rough.

VC's are all about the grind in play style. I would say always have small flanking units to give you those tasty flank charges. You will 9/10 survive the first round of any combat so ensure your units are positioned in such a way as to support each other.

Aramoro

Aramoro

 

[Xaret]

This has maybe been covered before... but for me the VC has it all. Tactically light? Not in the slightest.

You have no shooting phase granted, but to make up for that there is a veritable treasure trove of magic spells and bound items scattered around your army. How to manage your vampires with concerns to letting them do what they do best (munch enemy units) or trying to keep them alive. Zombies are useless in combat, so it tkaes skill and nous to have to make them useful in a battle.

With concerns to the usually overlooked beast elements of the VC, you can field a host of bats(small or large ), wolves and such.

Sure VC are probably most effective as a meat grinder army, but to say that's all they are is heresy :O. For example, bretonnians function best as an all cavalry powerhouse, and WE with a host choc-a-bloc with archers. Both of these armies are one dimensional, which goes to show if you look at an army in one dimension then of course it will seem that way.

I recently got chunked by a vicious vampire army that was very strigoi, lots of fast ghouls flying vampires, varghuls bats and wolves. It was very nasty.

So for me, VC are such an adaptable army that they suit many different peoples play styles, hence why they are popular

(Plus the models are freaking beautiful)

Hope that wasn't a case of too long did not read, and that you found it useful. I tend to like the idea of going with an army that you like, not looking at the tactics, because you learn to love the army's way of doing things however it fights.

Cheers, Xaret <3

 

[Aren]

Blood Knights maybe be as good in combat as Grail Knights but don't forget that you can ressurect them, something you wouldn't see on Grail Knights...

 

[Cobra7]

I think a point that is lacking here is the fact that I think our Army revolves around our charicters. I like how the same vampire can be tailored to match a chaos caster or a HE Prince. Also putting the right charicter in the right unit is importent, getting the right abilities, equipment and putting in the right unit to take advantage of is a minor science in it's self.

I also think that we need tactics more than most armies.