VCs are now unstable.
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Well i'm going to take the challange and continue, I think it will become well know quickly that the counts have fallen down the tiers. It will take all the more fine-tuneing of general ship skills then repeatedly trying to roll a 3+ on 12 or more dice in the magic phase to achieve victory, and it will be all the greater victory.
Us gaining unstable shouldn't make too much differance, the coach just got a serious boast anyway and the vargulf shouldn't be losing too may combats if used right. The only problem is our great standard of drakenhof being cast from the walls of our mighty fortress (the GG block), oh well better just not lose a combat eh.
Us gaining unstable shouldn't make too much differance, the coach just got a serious boast anyway and the vargulf shouldn't be losing too may combats if used right. The only problem is our great standard of drakenhof being cast from the walls of our mighty fortress (the GG block), oh well better just not lose a combat eh.
This is pretty shitty, but mostly because of the way GW went about sneaking the rule into an update rather than getting it in the first version of the FAQ.
How come all you guys want to switch to Wood Elves? I play both WE and VC, and the Elves got boned even harder than Vamps this edition. The saving grace is that they'll probably get a new book before VC do.
How come all you guys want to switch to Wood Elves? I play both WE and VC, and the Elves got boned even harder than Vamps this edition. The saving grace is that they'll probably get a new book before VC do.
Yes I was just reading there faq dang so i feel a little better about vampire now lol. Not sure what army to play now then since they trashed vc. I have until december before a tournament here to decide. I plan to use 7th for the big game in october cause 8th seems harsh on vc so it wouldnt be fair. Im hoping they start bringing updated books soon. its hard when editions flop over like this. Same thing happened with a few 40k armies that hadnt been updated in a while. I have played undead vampire counts for close to 15 years and this is the worst revision I have seen. It wasnt even this bad when they split the undead armies apart. With the new rules it leaves me thinking they aint worth playing for a while. But some play testing might show us new ways around even this. time can tell.
i'm kinda in the same boat, im gonna play a few games because (maybe hell has frozen over and) it might not be as bad as it is on paper.......but.
I'm pretty sure it is which is depressing, i love my VC, but it might be time t shelve them for one of my other armies, like my dwarves of my chaos.
Maybe i'll get to dust them off faster than i've been able to dust off my tomb kings. :'(
I'm pretty sure it is which is depressing, i love my VC, but it might be time t shelve them for one of my other armies, like my dwarves of my chaos.
Maybe i'll get to dust them off faster than i've been able to dust off my tomb kings. :'(
Fodderboy said:
No, the rule states 'If the army general is detroyed, an Undead army will slowly crumble.' We are no longer undead, but unstable; likewise we lose the marching restrictions and the battle standard damage reduction.
Edit: Though technically by that logic, we no longer cause fear.....
ill keep playing with my VC (as i dont have another army), i dont believe this rule makes a very big difference, its reasonable that our non vampire troops have unstable rule but, cant understand why vampires or necromancers have it too.
subber45
Ghoul
OMG ! Your right Now we are the Unstable and Unbreakable horde that isnt as scary as theose Egypto guys further south.
I may just rules lawyer that in just to see people shake their heads at the simple stupidity that is most of this FAQ.
I may just rules lawyer that in just to see people shake their heads at the simple stupidity that is most of this FAQ.
no, no guys, i checked armybook and errata, it says that the change is only for the break tests section. we are still undead but we have that rule for the break tests
I really dont think they playtested these rules at all, let alone the FaQs, like the ethereal, redfury mountain chimera. A few other questions - Are we even immune to psychology any more? If you have to select lores as you write the army list, do you select the standard of sundering lore then or before the game?
Sigh.....
Sigh.....
why play test them you make more money by getting new rules books or new editions if things dont run smoothly. This would be a prime example of why wfb play has dropped off in so many places to be bluntly honest. 40k is a much smoother running game. why cant you take a lesson gw and fallow wfb into same style play. Time will tell, there is a tourney in my area in december. Not sure what im taking but I look forward to play testing my vampires and other armies in the mean time.
Nicodemus
Wight King
Nicodemus said:
Shhhhhhh...keep it quiet..they might hear you and release a new errata that forbids ward and regen saves when general dies :tongue::tongue:
Yes that is true but with every errata and new set of rules there is upsetting news. I plan to play test it before I give in to the enteral rest of undeadness. Just wish they had realsed it with the first errata, is all. Besides there is a new army book in a year or 4 out there with our name on it. (then all the rules will change again). Besides I heard there are armies that are hurt alot worse then vampires, I was told that Dark elves and Chaos deamons got huge painful headaches of errata
witchking1980
Black Knight
This change is considered a hit for VC, but there is light in the end of the tunnel
Varghulf is more fragile but in 8th we cannot charge with it because the attacks of the enemy are a lot. So, flanks and rear will be Varghulfs main area as a support unit.
Drakenhof was/is an expensive banner for specific uses. Big blocks of infantry (mainly GG) or mostly Blood Knights. Choose your targets well so that you can win the battle with lots of CR
Our characters (if they are not killed in the middle of a battle) they are the last to fall so it is doesn't matter that much if they are in a unit. If they are alone riding a monster then their role is support (flanks or rear)
More or less this is how we are going to use in our favor this rule, except if I am mistaken.
Varghulf is more fragile but in 8th we cannot charge with it because the attacks of the enemy are a lot. So, flanks and rear will be Varghulfs main area as a support unit.
Drakenhof was/is an expensive banner for specific uses. Big blocks of infantry (mainly GG) or mostly Blood Knights. Choose your targets well so that you can win the battle with lots of CR
Our characters (if they are not killed in the middle of a battle) they are the last to fall so it is doesn't matter that much if they are in a unit. If they are alone riding a monster then their role is support (flanks or rear)
More or less this is how we are going to use in our favor this rule, except if I am mistaken.
Santawraith said:
And with plead you mean chop off their heads, right?
I'm new to this this edition, but I used to play Undead back when Vampire Counts & Tomb Kings were still one happy (although slightly disfunctional) family. I was actually quite excited to get started again, but all this news is kinda depressing. I'll continue to rebuild my army anyway, since nothing beats the undead flavour, but I'm hoping that things aren't so bad in the end as they are portrayed now.
Well nagash would set them all strait course they might all serve him in the end of it. But hey that could even be in our favor.
I too am from that old edition and have fallowed them through there changes. I feel play testing is the only way to find out what is working will work or works. Besides many players not knowing the changes to vampire counts might still be leary of using some tactics agaisnt us until they find out better. One of the players here actaully refuses to play me when i bring vampires. He said they are no fun to play agaisnt. Hoping I play him in december it would be a easy win.
I too am from that old edition and have fallowed them through there changes. I feel play testing is the only way to find out what is working will work or works. Besides many players not knowing the changes to vampire counts might still be leary of using some tactics agaisnt us until they find out better. One of the players here actaully refuses to play me when i bring vampires. He said they are no fun to play agaisnt. Hoping I play him in december it would be a easy win.
Santawraith said:
I didn't see anything that makes either of them worse off really. However I am very glad to see that they removed the can't be hurt by magic portion of the Steam Tank! Whoo Hoo! Hello Mr Steam Tank, say hello to the Lore of Metal....
desfer said:
It makes a huge difference, because you must divide crumble wounds equally between a unit/ridden monster and a character/characters they are walking with/riding. Not getting saves against the new crumble (when every single other army in the game bar brets and WE got better in combat) was the final nail in the collective coffin as it were.
No thank you, i'll play something else till GW gets their head out of their collective asses and i can play with my very expensive wights.
Zanthor said:
Dark elves actually got *better*, only thing in their faq causing issues is GW boned the ring of hotek by giving 2 *completely contradictory questions regarding it in the same faq.
As for daemons......lol. the only ones that really got hurt were pure nurgle, and pure tzeentch, and anyone that relied on super tooled up greater daemons for 2k games.
Khorne is *ridiculous*, and they made flamers better.
The only armies that got hit harder than VC were Bretonia and Wood Elves, brets don't do sustained combat, and they certainly don't like getting hit back, and wood elves relied on their skirmishers and their fast cav, both of which got *hosed*. HARD.
Dark Elves really didn't get hit all that bad they have the core that will most likely go first and have hatred, 6 points a pop thats a deal! Yes our skellies are 9.
I have a deamon army and they got screwed up pretty bad to, they will never horde as all core are 12 pts per (deamonetts got a boost)
Most of the deamons are glass cannons and cannot take a punch, limiting attacks back was critical, we cant do that anymore.
Plague bearers were their only stick unit and now with no ward and regen saves they are a joke.
With the increase in shooting and no being able to hit large targets taking a deamon lord is asking for something bad to happen. even Fateweaver will struggle with a 3+ ward and 1 re-roll per turn. mass amount out shot will take them down.
I would love to see their play testing notes.........
I have a deamon army and they got screwed up pretty bad to, they will never horde as all core are 12 pts per (deamonetts got a boost)
Most of the deamons are glass cannons and cannot take a punch, limiting attacks back was critical, we cant do that anymore.
Plague bearers were their only stick unit and now with no ward and regen saves they are a joke.
With the increase in shooting and no being able to hit large targets taking a deamon lord is asking for something bad to happen. even Fateweaver will struggle with a 3+ ward and 1 re-roll per turn. mass amount out shot will take them down.
I would love to see their play testing notes.........
I said the same when I read the Demon book in 7th edition.
Actually, I said "no way!" a lot, but that's close.
Actually, I said "no way!" a lot, but that's close.
I think its ridiculous that they basically made everything immune to combat res via steadfast, then turned around and kade us MORE vulnerable to it. With the number or attacks coming our way i can likely see most enemies be able to wipe a horde of skeletons out in a single turn. I lost 50 skeletons in 1 combat to a 70 ish pt unit of goblins.
This is definitely uncool if it doesn't get nullified by some other FAQ or errata or something before the VC's new book.
Ah well, I'll probably still start an army anyways, but they won't see as much game time as my Lizardmen, that's for sure.
Ah well, I'll probably still start an army anyways, but they won't see as much game time as my Lizardmen, that's for sure.