Veterans please aid me, because composition will crucify me. VC 2250

[Staks]

Hey guys. Well my VC were sitting on the shelf collecting dust for all of 2009 because the tournament scene here in Australia had them comp'd out of contention for most tournaments. I am hoping 2010 will be a much better year for the little dead men, as a few stronger army releases have come out which will hopefully take the spotlight off them.

I need some advice here from experienced players on what are the minimum requirements to make a successful VC build capable of getting big wins. Notably 3 questions -

1. Can you constantly win big with a combat build Lord?

2. Is the helm of commandment a necessity?

3. Can Skeletons do it over ghouls, or are ghouls necessary for a competitive list?

4. Starting with big blocks vs raising small blocks. Which works best?

5. Is vanhels spam a requirement for dealing with dancing armies like DE?

Here is the list I was thinking of running, any comments would be appreciated.

Vampire Lord lvl 3
- Nightmare
- Fly
- Red Fury
- Avatar of Death (shield, HA)
- Dreadlance
- Stupid ward

Vampire BSB
- Dread Knight
- Walking Death
- Flag of Blood Keep (4+ ward vs ranged)

Vampire
- Dread Knight
- Infinite Hatred
- Bound vanhels
- Enchanted Shield

Necromancer
- Vanhels, Invocation
- 2 x powerstones

25 x Skeletons FC

25 x Skeletons FC (no muso)

20 x Zombies

5 x Dogs

6 x Fell bats

6 x Black Knights FC
- Hellfire banner

6 x wraiths (including banshee)

Total 2250.

As you can see the army has the potential for a mini vanhels spam phase with 2 x 3 dice vanhels, followed by the bound. If my lord rolls it up as well, I can 3 x 3 dice it followed by the bound. All my blocks including bats are starting at a very large size so that I don't need to spend dice bringing them up on the first turn or two, which leaves me dice to throw some wind of undeath, curse of years, or raise fresh zombie blocks. I do like the 4+ ward on the knights to prevent them being smashed by a spirit of the forge or dark elf crossbows but I do question whether that vampire is any better off than a vargulf.

Any idea's guys? How does the list look?

 

[Rangerboy]

1. Can you constantly win big with a combat build Lord?
I am always afraid to get my lord in combat...some other armies have much beefer lords and a dark elf assasign will wreck him. I can't remember if you use it or not but nightshroud helps with these things

2. Is the helm of commandment a necessity?
I think it is but I play a fast moving list with ghoulkin. WS7 zombies or wraiths are always a good thing

3. Can Skeletons do it over ghouls, or are ghouls necessary for a competitive list?
I personally don't use skeletons so I wouldn't know.

4. Starting with big blocks vs raising small blocks. Which works best?
I usually start with a decent block at least up front...a shooty army will focus on a unit until you can't raise anymore!

5. Is vanhels spam a requirement for dealing with dancing armies like DE?
I would recommend trying to put the book in your army.

 

[Heinrich of Mousillon]

This is a pretty good list, however I would suggest making one vampire magic oriented, most likely giving it Master of the Black Arts, so there is more raising of your fallen units and more chance of doing so in case you run into a heavy dispel army.

I also might suggest replacing the wolves with Fell Bats and having two units of bats which will more often be effective unless you are faced with something like an Anvil of Doom. Of course it also depends on your strategy and plans.

Good luck to you and your army!

 

[dabber]

The main issue for your questions is what the opposition looks like. Even in a comp'd environment, Daemons, Dark Elves and Lizardmen are huge problems. The combat lord is effectively suicide against Daemons and you also really want ghouls in that fight, not skeletons. Double Engine Lizards are almost as bad as Daemons. Dark Elves are bad for the combat lord too, although he helps a ton against Black Guard.

I cannot consistently win with a combat lord, even with some comp limits around. On the other hand, I've concluded I'm not as skilled at using VC as with other armies. I either win easily by massacre, or I lose and have no clue what I could have done better.

To me, fitting the helm in somewhere is easy enough taking it is a no-brainer. It changes slightly lost combats to slightly won combats, and gives the enemy a chance to fluff the roll.

 

[The Red Scourge]

Sounds like you need to develop your tactical skills. As you seem very focussed on finding a 'trick' - funny thing is, those tricks have a way of getting hit hard by comp.

CC lord can bring the pain. The helm is a crutch. And the only advantage ghouls have over skellies is that the initial investment is a bit cheaper (okay ghouls are better in many ways, but skellies are a good and decent core choice - and look a lot better ).

One good thing about skellies is, how they do not need the Helm as much as ghouls, instead banners, ranks and numbers will make their day. I always give mine spears, as WFB is ruled by dice, and spears give me a better a chance at beating the odds by rolling more dice