Vigour Mortis

[Mad 'At]

This Corpse cart special rule buff anything within 6" of it if an augment spell from the Lore of the Vampires targets a Copse Cart, and is successfully cast.

I have three questions about this, hopefully all will be answered by an FaQ, but until then I'd like to know what you guys think:

1. What dose successfully cast mean? If the spell is dispelled dose it still count?

2. a) When do you check which units are affected? After the spell which activated the special rule is resolved of before? This is very important if the activating spell was Van Hel's

b) Could it be that the rule creates a bubble around the Cart which moves with it and only those who are in range ATM are affected. I.e dose a unit immediately lose the buff when it moves out of range and a unit who moves into range immediately gain it?

 

[Bishop]

The spell must be successfully cast... not dispelled. It would occur after the triggering spell resolves (I would guess).

I haven't got the new book yet, so I dunno about the last question.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

1) It has to be a vampire lore spell that will effect it cast from yourself.
It Has to be cast, if it is dispelled it won't count.

2)A. After you cast the spell whatever it was it is resolved before you sort out any effect it may of triggered by other things.

3) The Unit would have the ASF rule on them within 6 inches, its not cast on them, its a buff for being near it.
If you moved away from it via VHD it would not go with you if outside the 6 inch bubble but if you moved the CC it may now effect other models that were not originally within 6 inches.

 

[Mad 'At]

1) Seams you are both sure about this. I too would say no, if dispel it doesn’t count. But then I tried looking at similar wording on different stuff and see how it compares to other stuff. What I found was highly disturbing. Some lore attributes (including our own) have the same wording, and no one would say that we re-gain wounds if they dispel it, fine. But then I looked at the new Dark Acolyte power, and noticed something I didn't notice before.

The Vampire adds D3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts IoN (regardless of the casting value chosen)

What's important about it is that it doesn’t help you to cast it, it only makes it harder to dispel if you cast it. But the wording, successfully casts, is exactly the same as in our lore attribute and in Vigour Mortis. If we say successfully cast dose not not include dispelled spells, then Dark Acolyte dose nothing. The Vampire cast IoN, the opponent tries to dispel it. If he succeeds: the spell doesn’t take place. If he fails: the spell is successfully casts and you may add a D3 to the casting total and then resolve the spell. Very strange...

2) The wording successfully casts implies to me the it is the casting, not the effect of the spell, which triggers the buff. Thus resolving the buff before the spell.

3) I hope you are right Duke...

 

[Bishop]

I think that's just poor wording on GW's part ( :| no way! ).

A spell is not successfully cast until the opponent fails/declines to dispel.

I believe that the intent of that wording is to make IoN harder to dispel but not easier to cast. FAQ here I come.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Its +d3 to your casting roll.
They have just buggered up the wording as they always do.
Thats how I feel anyway, I'm also looking forward to the FAQ on this one.

 

[Muaddib81]

Yep, I concur with the poor wording thing and take that to mean +1d3 to the casting roll (that is not a natural 1 or 2). Also looking forward to the FAQ on that one.

And agree on the cart: as soon as the cart receives the spell, the effect triggers, and stays in a bubble around the cart, so if VHD moves it away, the units affected by ASF might change. Pretty reasonable.

 

[Dan_Lee]

I would interpret it as when vigour mortis is triggered you give ASF to all units within range of the cart and then that's it. There is no re-assigning ASF if units move, as that adds more book-keeping.

Look at it this way: if you cast an augment spell that affected all friendly units within 12" until your next magic phase, and then later that magic phase used VHD to bring another unit within 12" of the wizard who cast the first spell, would you try to apply the spell to the VHD'd unit? No you wouldn't.

Similarly, if in the next movement phase one of your augmented units moved so that they were no longer within 12" of the wizard would they stop benefiting from the augment? No they wouldn't.

Spell effects are resolved when the spell is cast and not constantly updated throughout the spells duration. Vigour Mortis is an ability and not a spell I'll admit, but I think it should be treated as a spell as this reduces confusion.

 

[Sanai]

I would say that the buff moves with the cart- all units within 6 of the cart, so if the cart moves away from a unit before the combat phase, they lose that asf.

 

[Sukhmet]

Its +d3 to your casting roll.
They have just buggered up the wording as they always do.
Thats how I feel anyway, I'm also looking forward to the FAQ on this one.

Ooh, if it adds d3 to the casting total, one could make it a one dice cast: D6 + D3 + Wizard Level, if a level 3 or higher, goes off on at least a 6, with only a 1 in 18 chance of a dud (double ones). If cast early in the magic phase, likely to get dispelled easily, but could be a good use of that stray power dice that gets left over at the end of the phase.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I think we will have to wait for the errata to confirm this.
If its +D3 to successful rolls its a waste, if to rolls its solid.

 

[The Dead of Night]

I think we will have to wait for the errata to confirm this.
If its +D3 to successful rolls its a waste, if to rolls its solid.

I'm not sure I'd call it a waste. Now that we cant spam, we need to make it as difficult to dispel as we can. If the enemy does dispel it, then it might force them to use an extra dice. I agree though, not ideal.

 

[Zhatan]

It must be +d3 to cast as long as it's not a natural one or two. Anything else would be pretty stupid.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I think we will have to wait for the errata to confirm this.
If its +D3 to successful rolls its a waste, if to rolls its solid.

I'm not sure I'd call it a waste. Now that we cant spam, we need to make it as difficult to dispel as we can. If the enemy does dispel it, then it might force them to use an extra dice. I agree though, not ideal.

Thats why you take multiple casters.
Besides necro is the flavor of the month for wizards nowadays anyway and they can't have it.

 

[Demian]

Just a quick thought about this

Could it be its referring to: spells are successfully cast when you roll your Power Dice and beat the casting value of the spell? (I mean, if you don't break concentration, roll less than 3, etc). Dispelling just negates the spell's effect, but was indeed cast.

If so, adding the D3 would, as suggested before, make it more difficult for opponents to dispel it (because adding difficulty after all dispelling attempts is just silly ^^u)

I know the wording in the brb for "successful castings" states clearly that after Dispel attempts have been made (or none attempted).

So yeah. What the hell?.. D:

 

[Mad 'At]

I know the wording in the brb for "successful castings" states clearly that after Dispel attempts have been made (or none attempted).

Where in the BRB did you find that? I thought I had read it somewhere but couldn’t find it. Would you please give a page reference

 

[Demian]

Page 36, under Spell Resolution, first sentence:

"If the enemy has failed his dispel attempt (or not even attempted one!), the spell is cast successfully..."

There .o.

 

[Grish]

In the last iteration of the book, the Corpse Cart boost worked like this:
If successfully cast, everyone within 6" of the Corpse Cart gets ASF.

It wasn't a burst spell, you calculated it each time you needed to. If you destroyed the Cart, the buff was destroyed.

The Ring of Hotek has a bubble effect; if you cast a spell, panic the unit they are in, and when they move away the bubble moves with it. I do not have teh book so would need the exact wording but I would assume for now that it works the same way (bubble that moves with the corpse cart).

For your question about "Successfully cast" refer to pg. 36, main rule book.

If the enemy has failed his dispel attempt (or not even attempted one!), the spell is cast successfully

So I think that's pretty clear that it can't be dispelled.
Another quote:

If the casting result equals or exceeds the spell's casting value, the spell is cast

Note the different wording. Cast successfully and cast are two different things.

 

[Demian]

Note the different wording. Cast successfully and cast are two different things.

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. If the Vamp Power adds D3 to any successful cast of ION, what's the point?, since all dispel attempts would have been resolved.


I don't get it .o.

 

[Grish]

Oh sorry Damien! You did answer before me. Was coasting through this post and didn't read carefully enough.