Virtual Shopping Trip- Buying a 2000 points army. Comparing Mantic & Games Workshop.

[Sanai]

Okay, in this thread, I will be making 3 virtual shopping trips, pretending to buy 3 2000 pts Vampire Counts army, all using the same army list. The 3 armies will be made of the following sources:
1# Entirely bought from Mantic Games.
2# Citadel Mininiatures, entirely bought from the games workshop website.
3# Citadel Miniatures, bought as cheap as can be found on ebay, bitzbox.com and bitzbarn.com.

Here are the rules I am setting myself:
1# Army deals, battallions, mantic infantry horde deals etc, will be ignored for the initial shopping trip, because it is unfair, as the mantic army deals contain units that are not useable in a vampire counts army (catapults, archers, etc) and because it would bias the army list itself towards one manufacturer or the other.
2# The army list will only contain units from the vampire counts army book, that are available as mantic minis, for obvious reasons.
3# The army list will be made while viewing the range that mantic has available, but not the prices. Prices will only be taken into account after the list is written.
4# Ebay auction prices will not be used. Only "Buy it Now" prices will be used. On bitz websites, only things that are actually in stock will be used.
5# Screenshots ebay/bitz website prices will be taken and provided if asked for, GW/mantic prices will not be screenshotted as they are on the web for everyone to easily verify themselves.
6# All 3 shopping trips will be done today, between now (1:12 pm, western australia standard time) and 11:59 pm, western australia standard time, onm the 15/10/2011.
7# For the sake of complete fairness and thoroughness, after the 3 initial virtual shopping trips, I will make a trip using the same list and the mantic army deals/ infantry hordes/etc, and one using the GW batallions and conversions.

Alrighties, wish me luck!

 

[Sanai]

Army List- 2000 pts

LORDS

Vampire Lord
-Nightmare
-Red Fury
-Infinite Hatred
-Supernatural Horror
-Blood Drinker
-Flayed Hauberk
-Crown of the Dammned
Total- 425 pts

HEROES

Wight King
-BSB
-Drakenhoff Banner
Total- 225 pts

Necromancer- xx pts

Necromancer- xx pts

CORE

25 Skeleton Warriors
-Champion
-Musician
-Standard Bearer
-War Banner
Total- 245 pts

24 Ghouls
-Ghast
Total- 200 pts

24 Ghouls
-Ghast
Total- 200 pts

SPECIAL

19 Grave Guard
-Seneschal
-Musician
-Standard Bearer
-Banner of the Barrows
-Great Weapons
Total- 322 pts

RARE

4 Blood Knights
-Kastellan
-Musician
-Standard Bearer
Total- 270 pts

For Raising
- 20 zombies

GRAND TOTAL- 1997 PTS


Okay, theres the list I shall be shopping for. Pretty standard, I know it has 2 naked necros, because when you buy a wight king bsb from mantic, he has to be in a set with 2 necros and another wight king. Couldnt fit the last wight king, he can just be a grave guard champion or something. Anyways, onto the (pretend) shopping!

 

[whtdwrf11]

Good luck with this Sanai I look forward to the results you end up with when all this is said and done.

 

[Sanai]

MANTIC VIRTUAL SHOPPING TRIP

Vampire Lord + 4 Blood Knights

$44.99 USD

Wight King BSB, 2 necromancers + Grave Guard Champion

$29.99 USD

20 Skeleton Warriors

$24.99 USD

10 Skeleton Warriors (brings skeleton unit up to 25, with 5 spare for raising/bits)

$14.99 USD

20 Ghouls x3 (60 ghouls) (Can only buy these in lots of 20, will match the 12 extra in the Citadel purchase)

$24.99 x3= $74.97 USD

20 Grave Guard

$24.99 USD

30 Zombies for Raising (Increased to 30 because thats the number mantic sell them in)

$39.99 USD

Total: $254.91 USD
So, in total, that is
1 mounted vampire lord
2 wight kings
2 necromancers
30 skeletons
60 ghouls
20 grave guard
4 Blood Knights
30 zombies (for raising)
for $254.91 USD.


Next up, the Citadel shopping from the Games Workshop website.

 

[Sanai]

GAMES WORKSHOP VIRTUAL SHOPPING TRIP

Combat Vampire Lord on Nightmare

$20 USD
I chose this vampire lord as he is a combat lord, same kind of materials as the mantic lord, and same amount of miniatures (as opposed to the manfredd I coulda chosen who is a finecast caster lord, and the blood dragon lords who come with a vampire on foot aswell)

Wight King BSB

$15 USD

Wight King (Krell Undead Lord)

$15 USD
Chose Krell because he is a non mounted wight king mini that isnt the BSB

Necromancer

$13.25 USD

Necromancer

$13.25 USD

10 Skeleton Warriors x3 (30 skeletons)

$24.75 x3 = $74.25 USD

10 Crypt Ghouls x6 (60 ghouls)

$24.75 x 6 = $148.50 USD

10 Grave Guard x2 (20 Grave Guard)

$41.25 USD x2 = $82.50 USD

5 Blood Knights

$99 USD

20 Zombies (For Raising)

$35 USD

Total: $515.75 USD

To recap-
1 Mounted Vampire Lord
2 Wight Kings
2 Necromancers
30 Skeletons
60 Ghouls
20 Grave Guard
5 Blood Knights (1 more than mantic)
20 Zombies (10 less than mantic)
for $515.75 USD

Do note that grave guard come with spare bases, and skeleton/zombie kits spare bits can be used with these bases to make more zombies/skellies.

Next up, citadel miniatures bought from alternate sources (but still brand new on sprue)

 

[Sanai]

GAMES WORKSHOP MINIATURES FROM ALTERNATE SOURCES VIRTUAL SHOPPING TRIP
Websites used:
www.ebay.com
www.bitzbarn.com
www.bitzbox.co.uk

Combat Vampire Lord Mounted on Nightmare (From gamesworkshop, as its damn hard to find him anywhere else unused)
$20 USD

Wight King BSB (from games workshop, as its cheaper than the cheapest of him I could find on ebay)
$15 USD

Wight King (Krell) (Once again, from games workshop due to low availability elsewhere)
$15 USD

Vampire Counts Plastic Necromancer (From Bitzbarn.com as sprue)
$10.60 USD

Vampire Counts Metal Necromancer (From Gamesworkshop.com)
$13.25 USD

10 Skeleton Warriors x3 (30 skeletons) (from Bitzbarn.com as sprues)
$19.80 x 3 = $59.40 USD

10 Crypt Ghouls x6 (60 ghouls) (from Bitzbarn.com as sprues, similar price can be found on ebay. availability varies)
$19 x 6 = $114 USD

10 Grave Guard x2 (20 grave guard) (from Bitzbarn.com as sprues)
$33 x 2 = $66 USD

5 Blood Knights (From gamesworkshop.com)
$99 USD

20 Zombies (From Bitzbarn.com as sprues)
$28 USD

Total: $440 USD

To summarise, thats:
1 mounted vampire lord
2 wight kings
2 necromancers
30 skeletons
60 ghouls
20 grave guard
5 finecast blood knights
20 zombies for raising
for $440 USD.
Same thing about spare bits as the games workshop one. If I had been luckier in my ebay hunting, or if you are willing to get slightly used stuff, it could have been a fair bit cheaper. Could also be cheaper by buying the models in their individual bits/parts instead of as whole sprues from bitzbarn/bitzbox. Could also be made cheaper if you can find the metal blood knights instead of the finecast ones, and can be made cheaper again my converting the wight kings from grave guard bits (and the empire general standard) bought of bitzbarn/bitzbox/ebay.

 

[Sanai]

Okay, so the conclusion is, that mantic is the cheapest, but lacks alot of options, and doesnt give much choice in how much of something you buy (no good if you want to buy less than 20 ghouls or zombies) and lacks the bonus "extra undead coming out of ground" potential of games workshop.

Games workshop is by far the most expensive, but has the positives that the mantic stuff lacks (As well as fits best with the warhammer setting/has higher quality)

The third option, which is to buy games workshop of bitz websites and ebay, shaved over $100 USD of the prices of games workshop stuff, and if your buying in australia, it would probably shave around $200 because the australian games workshop charges alot more than the american one I viewed.

The fourth option, which I use, is like the third option, except for certain things you convert by just buying the individual bits (i.e. a grave guard torso+legs+head+arms + an empire general banner, corpse cart zombies for zombies, etc). This would shave some more of the third shopping trip. I do believe that I could shave at least another $60 of the trip this way.

The fifth option is to take the fourth option even further, and buy secondhand, even painted/stripped models, which could bring it down considerably more, but means possibly damaged minis/ having to use paint stripper/etc.

Please note that both the games workshop and the mantic shopping trip could be cheaper, if you used army deals/battallions, I just left those out as the VC batallion has things mantic doesnt sell (corpse cart) and the mantic army deals have things VC cant use (catapults, archers, etc).

I hope that this thread has been informative, and I hope it helps to kill some of the bias towards mantic and games workshop. If anything, I hope it demonstrates that there is a middle ground between the price extremes of buying from mantic and buying direct from games workshop, and at least saves some people some money of their games workshop armies if they choose games workshop.

 

[Lynks]

Interesting, you could really force the GW price down if you looked at prices over an extended period of time instead of the one day and partook in some bidding!

 

[Sanai]

I could, but that would involve effort.

 

[Metal_ash]

A nice thread this...
Takeing some time and plan what you buy and look for alternative models then the ones GW sell often results in better prices and at times also alot cooler figures.

Cheers!

 

[Metal_ash]

Can also add that personaly i will for now not buy a single model before our new codex comes out.In the past i have made convertions that have been useless when the new codex have come out, bought plenty of models that in the next codex has been changed in either numbers, equipment or how the work in general.
Even as we for now not know the exact date on when our new codex hit the market we can be rather certain it ain't to far away in to the future ( at least hope it ain't ).
I to have done some virtual shopping and some plans on what i am to get, but as i said...I will wait and see when our new codex gets out on what i want to spend my money on and from where i will buy them.

Cheers!

 

[whtdwrf11]

This was certainly quite informative and Games Workshop being more expensive comes as no surprise to me because of having to buy so many core troops at that kind of price.

I should most likely plan my own purchases even if I plan on just buying what I like for my army and not to a set army list.

 

[SotF]

One slight comparison issue.

When looking at the mantic army deals, there is at least their starter sets that include things that are available (Ghouls, Zombies, Skeletons, & Revenants)

 

[Sanai]

Yes SOTF, but if I had included the starter sets, I would have had to include the games workshop vc batallion for fairness, and mantic doesnt have a corpse cart.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Nice work Sanai , really does who what you can do if you shop around. It also does show that whilst GW are more expensive, some of their models are worth the extra cost.

 

[DarkSir]

Just a heads up. Mantic's prices may be increasing soon. They just changed their discount structure for retailers, which is usually a sign that they'll be changing prices soon, too.

 

[Fenriswulf]

I bought myself Gamezone Vampire Knights instead, because for the extra price they are really worth it. For Black Knights the Morghul Knights from LotR work really well because they're to scale with the Mantic Undead.

All my zombies, skeletons, grave guard and ghouls are from Mantic though. Their prices for the quality can't really be beaten. The old VC units look terrible. If we get a new book soon, I will have to see what changes GW make in regards to sculpts.

 

[hairyjeff]

Although I usually agree with most of Sanai's input, I'm having to disagree on two points. Mantic quality for bulk troops is as good (but no better) than GW generally. Also, there are plenty of 'rising up from the grave options in mantic kits. But variety is limited, and most characters aren't so hot. Great info, many thanks.

 

[Krede]

Nice work Sanai. Though I guess it comes as no surprise to anyone that Mantics models are much cheaper than the GW ones.
To be honest I raised my Undead army more or less because Mantic started making the skeletons at a very fair price.
As for quality.... well I think the mantic sculpts for the ghouls,zombies, and skeleton warriors are very good, and easily able to compete with GW...especially when price is taken into account.

But I HATE that the shields are an integral part of both the skeleton warriors, and the revenants (and the shields are sculpted badly IMHO).... had GW skellies been cheaper I would have chosen those from this fact alone.

 

[Sanai]

Personally my beef with mantic skeletons is they are very anatomically unrealistic. Skulls do not frown, and the bone structure is all wrong. Also, they lack variety, and the shields are very plain/boring.

 

[Jacques Dauger De Cavoye]

I think going with mantic is the best bet. I have a 1500 point VC army, and it only cost me about $90 U.S. I used a mantic starter set that was $80, and came with 110 models or so,(Skellies, GG, Ghouls, and even thirty zombies for raising) Then I got some Reaper models for heroes. Expanding the force to 2000 points won't cost more than $40-50. All said and done I like the models better than GW, and the quality is just as good (if not better). I know people have a problem with he lack of poses for mantic models, but you only look at the front rank anyway, so it doesn't matter that much. It all comes down to preference in aesthetics, but if you like the mantic guys, and don't feel like hooking GW fat, then go for mantic. You can save at least $300. Just thought I would tell people that

 

[hairyjeff]

Is it possible to direct "new players" to this thread ? I'm no techie, and I think it is a terrific intro for them.

 

[Zephyr]

I also think this should be stickied. Great work Sanai! Obviously the look of models is purely an individual taste that will also influence choices but purely aimed at price comparison and options of a model this is great.

 

[Sanai]

Well, this isnt my section of the forums, so its not up to me whether it gets stickied.
If it did get stickied, I would probably have to update it each time mantic or games workshop does a major price adjustment (and when/if mantic/ games workshop release certain new undead kits).

In the end though, I am willing to do that if you guys want me to.

 

[Daedleh]

Figured I'd weight in since I'm in the middle of a mostly Mantic army

My mantic army as it stands has:
40 skeletons
60 Revenants/Graveguard
40 Ghouls (need more)
30 Zombies
10 Wraiths
10 Black Knights

I've got some extra bits and pieces sourced from elsewhere for Vargulfs, necromancers etc.

To buy the Mantic section of the army directly from Mantic, with none of the army box sets would cost:
Skeletons: £25
Graveguard: £39
Ghouls: £28
Zombies: £20
Wraiths: £14
Black Knights: £25
Total: £151

From GW this would cost me:
Skeletons: £62
Graveguard: £153
Ghouls: £62
Zombies: £21 (I've been kind and only gone for 20 here)
Wraiths: £80
Black Knights: £77 (Again been kind and not included the cost of command)
Total: £455

I fully intend to do an "on the other side" review of Mantic - looking at where Mantics strengths lie as a full product range and how a Mantic army stacks up against a GW army - but in the meantime I've got about 60 more models to paint...