vs Tomb Kings, rivals to the bone

[lonit]

Hi,

I have an upcoming battle with a Tomb King player. Was wondering what to look out for, what to field that will work best against him. 2400 pts is what we play. I'll have at my disposal the usual, a blender lord, some Vargheists, GG, zombies and ghouls. I fear mostly his chariot's impact hits and the big T8 Sphinxes ( i think against those , ghouls with poison will work best).

What is your opinion on VC chances vs Tomb Kings?

 

[Adam_Barrow]

A Terrorgheist will scream a sphinx off in one turn. It's going to be a grind out since neither army can break from combat so prepare to raise dudes from the dead, which we do a lot better than TK.

 

[The Sun King]

I play alot co-op with a Tomb Kings player so I get a bit of insight. I wouldn't be that afraid.

1. Your Vargheists should be able to set up for a flank charge of his chariots that he will have to react to. If they do get the charge in, his chariots should be toast.
2. Go after his Hierophant. Unlike us, he doesn't get a backup anti-crumbler-dude. He just crumbles.
3. Ghouls will rip right through a Warsphinx so do not worry, just try to get the right matchup.
4. Only thing I would be afraid of is his magic superiority. Casket of Souls + Hierotitan and lots of Light casters can really ruin you day. So keep your eyes on the ball and kill his characters.
5. Also, we raise WAY better than TK so you will win the war of attrition if you keep your casters alive.

 

[Vipoid]

Well, unlike you he can have archers, but they probably won't be *that* much of a threat, assuming your magic goes ok (although be aware that they have no penalties for range, moving etc.).

- In general, his Lord and Heroes will be less skilled and much slower than yours. However, Tomb Kings and Princes can transfer their WS to their squad - try to kill them with your I6/7 Vampires, before their squad gets to swing with WS5/6 attacks. Similarly, Necrotects automatically give their squads Hatred so, again, try to kill them before the rank and file troops get to strike.

- Tomb Kings can buy a weapon that allows them to regain a wound for each one they inflict in combat. However, that's also the *only* way a Tomb King character can regain wounds. Any wounds you deal to other characters will stick. Also, if you kill a Tomb King/Prince, the offending unit (or character in a challenge) takes d6 S5/4 hits. Probably not going to bother a Vampire Lord that much, but worth mentioning.

- If their heirophant is killed, their army will start to crumble, like ours, and they have no way to stop the crumble process. However, their troops have much better Ld than ours (generally around 8, even for the basic units), so don't expect crumble to cripple them either.

- Quite a few of their units have killing blow, and they have a spell which can either give killing blow to a unit, or make a unit that already possesses killing blow activate it on 5+. Something I'd defiantly consider dispelling.

- Beware the Casket of Souls! It adds d3 power dice to hit pool each turn and, so long as it remains still, can cast an unpleasant bound spell each turn. Said spell forces a unit within 48 to take a Ld test on 3d6, taking a wound for each point it fails by. Then, on a 3+, another squad no more than 6" from the last can be chosen, and the spell continues in a chain. Now, hopefully it won't be too bad if your units are within your general's inspiring presence, but since they'll likely be clumped, it could still be very unpleasant. Also, be very careful with low Ld units that go beyond the general's aura - it can easily kill a terrorghiest, vargwulf, varghiest squad etc. On the other hand though, it had Ld8 and no ward save (or armour save for that matter), so it could also be a good target for a terrorghiest.

 

[Elbisrever]

Most things have already been said. But for the fun of it, you could make a Vampire ( or lord if you really want to go bonkers) a Light Wizard with Forbidden Lore:

- The Lore attribute kicks in a nice extra D6 hits on dmg spells against TK.
- Also The signature spell, Shem's Burning Gaze is flaming, so his Flammable chars have to stay in his units or else they're toast (HA!).
- Pha's Protection won't do any protection against his archers (Arrow's of Asaph), but it might help in CC.
- The Speed of Light, well, hitting first is always better then hitting at the same time
- Light of Battle will save your ass against the Casket of Souls, so put it on your 'these-have-to-stay-on-the-board!'-unit, or go buff the spell up to protect all units within 12"
- The Net of Amynthok works pretty much 50/50 against most Tomb Kings, but it could easily harras Skull Catapults ( if I'm not mistaken) if pulled off. This one relies to much on luck I suppose.
- Banishment is pretty good; it does 3D6 hit against TK, with a strenght of prolly 5 ( 4 + 1 for every wizard who know's lore of light), and the unit hit must reroll ward saves.
- Birona's Timewarp, well, I don't think I have to explain what happens when you cast this one a unit of Blood Knights... *CRUNCH*


OR, you can opt to go with a Master Necromancer of Death, and snipe his precious char's out of there bunkers.
All in all, I think a magic heavy army 'could' prove very usefull for you. But as always, don't rely on it. Just make sure you have some good magic defense.

Cheers and goodluck!

 

[Vipoid]

Vampire - "Prepare yourself, foul mummy, to face the all-powerful, undead-destroying power of LIGHT! Now you will learn the meaning of suffe-OH GODS! THE LIGHT - II BURNS! ARRRRRRGH!"

:grave:

 

[Elbisrever]

Vampire - "Prepare yourself, foul mummy, to face the all-powerful, undead-destroying power of LIGHT! Now you will learn the meaning of suffe-OH GODS! THE LIGHT - II BURNS! ARRRRRRGH!"

Ofcourse, best not to point said magic at one's own face...

 

[Seneschal]

https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Army-Specific-Tactics-Tomb-Kings

Some of us posted our insights into the TK army and what we can do against them in the Army Specific Tactics thread. Enjoy.

 

[Demian]

The hits suffered when you kill a Prince/King are inflicted upon the UNIT (when not on a challenge)?????????????

I've been cheated on!! D:

 

[Rizzo]

Vampire - "Prepare yourself, foul mummy, to face the all-powerful, undead-destroying power of LIGHT! Now you will learn the meaning of suffe-OH GODS! THE LIGHT - II BURNS! ARRRRRRGH!"

:grave:

Zombie for you!
That was hilarious.

 

[Vipoid]

Zombie for you!
That was hilarious.

Thank you.

The hits suffered when you kill a Prince/King are inflicted upon the UNIT (when not on a challenge)?????????????

I've been cheated on!! D:

Indeed. Unless the Tomb King/Prince is killed in a challenge, then the wounds go to the [undefined=undefined]unit [/undefined]that killed him, distributed as per shooting. So, even if it was just the attacks of a specific Character in a unit that killed him, as long as it wasn't in a challenge, the unit gets targeted - not just the character.

 

[Scalenex]

I pretty much second every thing people wrote. Killing enemy characters early will help you, preventing chariots from getting the charge is very helpful.

Whacking the Heirophant is a good idea, but it's not a game winner by itself. I play LM most of the time. Once in a Tournament I still lost by a goodly margin despite killing the Heirophant in Turn 2 with Death spells. The leadership of his deadliest units tends to be 8 which means the wounds don't exactly wrack up. Conversely, I managed to turn a losing game to a drawing game against Vampire Counts from ONE crumble when the general was slain (of course poor dice luck knocked me back into the losing position the next turn).

You need to make sure you have something that inflict high strength hits to deal with the two sphinx units. I think that's where most of the raw power of the Tomb King comes from

 

[The Sun King]

Warsphinxes are easy pray for Ghouls... no need for high strength when you have talons newly manicured in poisonous poo poo.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Most of the tough TK builds you'll see are Construct heavy. But the whole army is slow as xmas, so out maneuvering is also a nice way to feed the gribblies into fights you want. Plan your match ups and you can corner him into whatever bottle you can make work.

 

[Vipoid]

Most of the tough TK builds you'll see are Construct heavy. But the whole army is slow as xmas, so out maneuvering is also a nice way to feed the gribblies into fights you want. Plan your match ups and you can corner him into whatever bottle you can make work.

Whilst I agree with your point, how exactly can a specific day be considered "slow"? o.o

 

[Elbisrever]

I guess this would be a pefect moment for sites suchs as 9GaG or the likes, to belch forth a phrase in the terms of:"If you never felt that waiting for Christmas was like an double-looped circle of eternity rather then 3 weeks, you never had a childhood."

I guess that's how X-mas is slow

 

[Medusas Guild]

plenty of fast stuff in TK, so don be fooled. You can mount or fly with the whole army and do reasonably well And have most of the army have KB. For sure watch the casket. I've had it go thru several units leaving a path of destruction!

Jay

 

[The Sun King]

Yeah but the casket is also a prime target itself since it f*ckin' EXPLODES in the TK's face when it dies

 

[Kalandros]

I've seen a VC player struggle and lose bitterly against .. the 6 sphinx army
His Terrorgheist vaporized one sphinx right off but then got vaporized by the Casket in return.
Then the 5 other sphinxes moved, charged, breathed fire, stomped and munched on the fleshy undead x:

I managed to defeat it with my Greenskins though, thanks to the Arachnarok~
If you're interested in reading up on the battle and the army list:
Battle report and army shots (a few posts after the report)
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=12430
The list itself:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=12236

How would you deal with 6 Kitten?
It was at a tournament so its not something you can specifically prepare for.

 

[Vipoid]

I've seen a VC player struggle and lose bitterly against .. the 6 sphinx army
His Terrorgheist vaporized one sphinx right off but then got vaporized by the Casket in return.
Then the 5 other sphinxes moved, charged, breathed fire, stomped and munched on the fleshy undead x:
ts not something you can specifically prepare for.

Out of interest, how many of the Sphinxes were necrospinxes (the ones that could fly), and how many were Warsphynxes (the ones that could breath fire)?

 

[The Sun King]

4 Warsphinxes and 2 Necrosphinxes - he posted a link to the list.

Out chaff him with DW and then let my ghouls or CH's poison attacks do the killing. Also Spirit Leech.

 

[Kalandros]

2 Necros (I rolled the important 6 before he did )
4 Warsphinxes all with Breath Weapon

 

[frankenstine]

just spirit leech him into oblivion and scream him to death lol bog them down with tarpit zombs and they are stuck and vunreble thats how id do it but never faced 6 befor it will be fun to try

 

[The Sun King]

Yeah should be pretty vulnerable to a Death/Scream list.

 

[Sume]

I seen talk about 6 sphinx lists, some even include a Tomb King on a sphinx. The general census is that the king gets grounded too fast, or crumbles away. The sphinxes while t8 are great against anything below str 4, and str 5 or higher kills them. Of course a cannon army will tear it apart. Looks the same way as a VC scream list will do. If I saw this across from me, and I had the proper tools to deal with it. Like the spirit leech magic, cannons, or screams. I would just chuckle. As it is not a very optimized Tomb King list.