Walked into a new Game club.

[leo85]

So today I tried out a new gaming club here in Montreal Canada. Went in and looked for a quick pick up game for 2250. Was able to get an O&G player with a list ready. I have a lot of experience against O&G's since my brother plays them so I was able to get a good 300+ games over a wide variety of editions. Is it me or is it (in this edition) we can't really play VC to their full potential without getting really bad looks? Since I was a guest here I did not take D banner, helm of commendment/Accursed armor Wight king trio, skull staff, I even passed on the "book" Anyway his army was so scattered out from his BSB by turn 2, 75% of his army ran off the table and by turn 4 its was annhialted. The entire game I was critisized for taking master of black arts and dark aclolyte duo, he said it was "broken" I hear this word a lot in the passed 2 years and it gives me the shivers. I explained to him that VC don't have a Master necromancer anymore so a vampire with dark acolyte is our trade for one then he went on and on about how invocation was broken, because his "3" fanactics ripped through 7 of 8 of my BK and I raised 5 of them back with 6 different invocations. Anyway maybe I am in the wrong, but I wanna get other VC player prepectives because it seems to me that whatever I try to do my list is always too overpowered, and I get 0 cheers on my tactics. Oh and by the way my brother plays an all gobbo army and yes our games are usually minor victory/draw that usually go either way, damn those pesky fanatics. Any of you experienced this before?

3 words I hate the most, 1. Broken 2. Builds 3. Top-tier.

Cheers mates:konrad:

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

I often get criticised for using vampires in my gaming club even though I try not to use any "broken builds" . Its not my fault that my opponents always seem to roll horribly for fear tests .
The only way the list you mentioned could be called "broken" is if you used more than 1 master of the black arts or used many master powers. No matter how often you explain to your opponents that our units our weak and expensive overall they will always use the arguement that the mere ability to raise our fallen is broken .

 

[Bug16]

From what you're saying it sounds like he wasn't very experienced with his army.

Invocation is nothing new and neither is invocation spam (not my playstyle), the army has been operating like this since 4th edition and that was 15+ years ago! Yes the army list can be abused but when a softer list is played (i.e. minus Dickenhoff, Helm, etc) people still whine when they lose.

 

[Trevy the Great]

People always whine when they lose. To find a player that consistently does not have any hard feelings at all after they lose a game or a certain sense of pride or celebration after a game is extraordinarily rare.

 

[Bug16]

People always whine when they lose. To find a player that consistently does not have any hard feelings at all after they lose a game or a certain sense of pride or celebration after a game is extraordinarily rare.

Completely disagree. Either that or it's the people I've played over the years.

 

[Trevy the Great]

I guess it really does depend on your meta. The people you play with can change things radically.

 

[Shadowsmage]

Not something new. I hear when people talk about Dark Elves and Daemons. Of course its much more entertaining when DE and Daemon players complain about the broken VC book. Take a look at the last English 2009 GT VC took 12th.

A good O&G player who knows their list well can also be a tough opponent however due to the strengths of the VC and the weakness of the O&G it is a uphill battle.

I think you played it right, keeping away from some of the harder parts of the VC list. Keep it friendly and all of that. If the other players are not experienced enough to see that then if your going to be a regular you need to educate them.

Be aware that certain people are going to complain about the VC anyway.

 

[sven]

If you play with a friendly list people gloat about how they beat the overpowered Vampire Counts.
If you play with a competitive list people whine about the broken Vampire Counts book.
They even mock you if you have managed to get a draw.

I tried to play with friendly lists It did not work out. Because every one else is playing stupidly unbalanced lists. But from my experience I think it is your opponent who needs to find the weak spot in your list. You don't have an obligation to create one for him.

 

[FatOlaf]

He obviously does not face DE / DoC / Gateway WoC or multiple Steg LM much then..

As an O&G player he has to face up to the fact that most armies are going to give him a hard time, I mean your whole army cause Fear in the first place which is enough to give most O&G players a really hard time before anything else..

It seems you took a toned down list, so don't worry about it.

VC are not broken just they can be very infuriating to play against, he simply need to change his tactics..

As for your brothers fanatics, keep your army back turn one and get those wraiths or spirit host to draw those fanactics out early, that will cause him a load of problems....

 

[Falahk]

O&G can still scrap up a pretty decent magic defence, so magic should not be a massive issue for them, and with a shit load of big units + warboss ld, a bunch of squigs(imune) and savage orcs(frenzy), fear can be controlled to some extent

sure, its a bit of an uphill fight agaisnt everything with o&g nowdays (and if the dice god disagree with you, you are screwd), but geting a 50% win rate should definatly be possible with some training, even more so if the VC player leave the nasty tools at home

out of intrest, what did the o&g player take in his list?

People always whine when they lose. To find a player that consistently does not have any hard feelings at all after they lose a game or a certain sense of pride or celebration after a game is extraordinarily rare.

I think it depends much on the player in question, on what one will whine about thought, I love to whine about tactical mistakes I made or how downright shitty my dice was, but never about army sellection done by me or my opponent.

 

[doombunny666]

If he cant use his army and then complains about "Broken" VC then he deserves to lose...

In my opinion VC are not broken no army is there are just things you shouldnt do such as invo spam, Engine of the Gods spam, Deathstars and so on...

 

[Lord Fear]

Sad fact is some people will whine about anything that detracts from the possibility of them winning (which is the same as having fun to such people). I've had loads of people whine about my Vampire Counts before we've even played, who then would go on to beat me. I've had people take the filthiest lists they could muster, then complain when I bring back 2 Black Knights or a single Wraith in one magic phase.

Hell, earlier in the week I was trying to arrange a game with my new goblins against an acquaintance. He had seen my army list, and didn't like the fact that it had 8 Fanatics in it, so didn't want to play that one. I said I could bring my Vampire Counts, but mentioned my current list has Konrad von Carstein in it- of course, the use of a special character was even worse, so he definitely didn't want to play. Which was fine- its his time, so if he doesn't think he'll have fun, then he shouldn't. What grated was he then asked "Don't you have any mid-power lists to play against?". What he really meant, of course, was, "Don't you have a list that is easy for me to beat?". And this was with me offering to use Goblins!!

 

[Trevy the Great]

I have to say that Vampire Count's Special Characters are not the most powerful of the bunch, and Konrad seems to be one of the most balanced. While I don't really like the use of Special Characters anyway, but it seems extreme that someone would refuse to play against one, hero level Special Character.
May I ask what he wanted to use?

 

[Lord Fear]

He only had Ogres- in fact I remember he had complained about me wanting to use Skarsnik originally with the gobbos, then I said I had Vampires too, but with Konrad. I did realise myself that using Konrad vs Ogres would be a bit mean

Later on I saw him playing a game against a real nasty VC power list. But at least it didn't have a special character...

 

[Trevy the Great]

Hmm, maybe if he was Ogres he had a little but of a right to complain, but I still think its bad form to refuse to play a list just for having Konrad. If you play and lose, its a learning experience, a chance to see what can be done better.

 

[Lord Fear]

To be honest I'd have happily swapped Konrad out for a Vampire with, I dunno, Dark Acolyte and Lord of the Dead, but I didn't think he'd have especially enjoyed fighting against Drakenhof Guard

 

[Campbellstein]

I am planning a friendly tournement with friends, me with magic VC, empire, dark elves, high elves, dwarfs and orcs.

We have agreed to the use of a maximum of 1 special character, we all wanted to use one but the empire player wanted to use 4, so we decided to limit it to 1.

the dwarf player is fielding a gunline army, while we all fear his guns, we dont mind this army as its obvious strengths are balanced by some painful weaknesses. This player however may not be playing with us for the campaign because he thinks invocation of nehek is overpowered and thinks that the campaign story should be written to somehow ban raising models using magic. We thought he was joking to begin with, but he wasnt. I have agreed that I will leave my invocation at home, if he doesnt mind leaving anything metal at home.

I think every one of the armies I will be facing has something for me to be scared of, but i wouldnt try and ban anything in the list.

empire - steam tank and 2 cavalry blocks
dark elves - 2 cavalry blocks, hydra, malus darkblade
high elves - drain magic spam
orcs - 2 giants
dwarfes - rock hard infantry and gunline

 

[leo85]

I started VC with the cool thought you could raise an army from the ground. I admit I do spam IoN because it's the basis of our army. Some armies shoot we raise. Take this away from us and our strength goes with it. We should be able to raise the dead anytime we want, we are VC, hell it didn't stop Vlad now did it? Every army out there has many goodies to choose from and so do we, but it seems that ours are over powered. It's very frustrating to play VC on the board as much as fighting them on the battlefield, the day it becomes a joy and pleasure fighting undead is the day ill stop playing. Spam the IoN it's pretty much our own little shooting phase:konrad:

 

[Bug16]

"empire - steam tank and 2 cavalry blocks"

Only one stank? That can't be a proper tournament, most people take two.

 

[Campbellstein]

i did say friendly tournament, but i meant friendly campaign

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Walked into a new Game club

Ouch, that must have hurt. Hope your ok Best use the door next time......

 

[Zanos]

Wow Don. Just wow.

 

[Get of W'soran]

Walked into a new Game club

Ouch, that must have hurt. Hope your ok Best use the door next time......

*Snickers*

 

[doombunny666]

Walked into a new Game club

Ouch, that must have hurt. Hope your ok Best use the door next time......

Whos the Emperor of the teeth?

Julius Incisor!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Sanai]

I play Imperial Guard and I lose alot, with no hard feelings (I have never won a game with my guard, but there have been some amazingly close ones)
While I am looking forward to some victories with VC, win or lose, it doesnt matter. Fun matters. A squad of guard in a ruin somehow surviving 5 turns of being shot at by sniper scouts, that weird techmarine cannon and a whirlwind making both of us crack up laughing matters
Winning is pretty irrelevant in most games anyway, as both forces tend to take enough losses in any wfb/w40k game to make it so they would no longer be usable as a fighting force.