Watch tower battle

[Paran]

Hi,

I played a game on Sunday. The first game we rolled was watch tower, which my high elf opposite number forfeit straight away as he was a cavalry and chariot list. So we rolled a different battle.

All I had that would have been able to garrison it at set up was my zombie bunker. Which is hardly a durable unit in that position. When creating a VC list is there a good option for this type of battle?

Thanks,
Paran

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Oh man! Zombie bunkers are great for Watchtower games because you can start them off in the tower and then just cast a couple of IoN's and their unstopable! I mean, the max that can attack a tower is 10 models, you can only lose 20 models per turn, and you just IoN the 1st and 2nd turn and you should have well enough models in there to hold it.

 

[Blutsauger]

I hope you rightfully jeered and mocked your opponent for not being able to adapt his forces to the relevant scenario!

 

[badfox7]

The problem with a zombie bunker is that you have to get to it before you can cast ion. But zombies are great to hold it. I usually start with zombies until my grave guard horde with all of my characters get there and then put them in the watchtower.also 20 grave guard with sword and shield hold it pretty well too.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Oh man! Zombie bunkers are great for Watchtower games because you can start them off in the tower and then just cast a couple of IoN's and their unstopable! I mean, the max that can attack a tower is 10 models, you can only lose 20 models per turn, and you just IoN the 1st and 2nd turn and you should have well enough models in there to hold it.

Khorn Chaos warrior with 2 hand weapons are horrible to fight in this.
40 Possible wounds with another 40 possible crumble.
Its bloody horrible.

I can do well at watch tower but when I lose with my cav army its normally to Chaos, just too much armour to get them out.

 

[Aedin]

Terrorgheist scream them out...

 

[Demian]

And cast Curse of Years on them!

Yeah, Terrorgheist seems like a nice idea to flush them out until a decent vampire can overthrow them... or a Unit of Cairn Wraiths if they don't have a character inside!

AND don't forget to use Hexwraiths freely. They'll almost certainly get max wounds every time! (Flaming Attacks re-roll to wound when targeting inside a building). Use Danse Macabre for double fun!

But yeah, once you've got the hold of the watchtower, zombies + IoN Spam gives you the victory!

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Wraiths excell at watch tower. Hard cover. Skirmishers? No combat res other than kills? Yes plz

 

[Count Vashra]

I was thinking that, too, about the Wraiths. Ethereals would be great inside a Watchtower.

 

[Lynks]

wraiths are great until any magical flaming attacks come your way, then you cry yourself to sleep at the devestation

 

[Count Vashra]

Yeah...can't help that, unless, of course, you put a Banshee in for screaming, and then you still have things with longer range and if you happen to be using a Watchtower with holes and your facing Tomb Kings with Casket...you're dead.

 

[The Sun King]

Welcome to the forum Paran!

You do know that his cavalry could dismount and enter the building right?

Regarding the scenario and playing VC - I have to say that it's simply the best scenario for us. I have still yet to lose a battle that is Watchtower. Thing is, we are unbreakable and can raise our troops = bi-winning( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0NIMTPYYcU ).

Put your level 4(if you have one) Master Necromancer with LoV into the the watchtower and he is unkillable since the enemy has no way of targeting him. Zombs are fine when holding the tower but try 40 GG with GW and Banner of the Barrows... that will demoralize your enemy like nothing you've ever seen. Also another neat trick is that YOU SHOULD NOT put your troops into the tower if you win the roll off, simply just ignore it. The reason is this: Say you put a unit into the tower, the enemy gets first turn and can charge the tower right away. Since the unit in the tower won't have any support it's a big risk. But if you don't put a unit in the tower it doesn't mean that your enemy will get it since you cannot enter a building the same turn you march moved.

 

[Blutsauger]

Also another neat trick is that YOU SHOULD NOT put your troops into the tower if you win the roll off, simply just ignore it. The reason is this: Say you put a unit into the tower, the enemy gets first turn and can charge the tower right away. Since the unit in the tower won't have any support it's a big risk. But if you don't put a unit in the tower it doesn't mean that your enemy will get it since you cannot enter a building the same turn you march moved.

But, how does that benefit us? I mean, I can see how we could try and move some units up and Van Hels into it on our first turn, but then you're really relying on that spell getting off, or else your opponent gets to take the tower. It's definitely a trick to bare in mind if you're facing off against some dead killy troops (Chaos Warriors spring to mind) but I think for the most part it's a much better option to take the tower to start with.

 

[Paran]

Thanks everybody for the responses. It has definitely given me more to think on with VC and how to deal with the Watchtower.

I was not aware he could dismount and occupy the tower. I believe he didn't know either as he let me auto win. I will read the rules tonight on cavalry and buildings, as I seem to have missed a few things.

While I shouldn’t be smug. I will allow myself to be in this case and also share my moment. I have had such problems with Lion Chariots as wood elves, but the first time I encountered one as a VC army was so nice. My banshee took it down in one scream, with a little help from the Cursed Book giving me a doom and darkness for one power dice. Every time I think on it I get a grin. Better stop gloating now, as it isn’t polite.

Paran

 

[Demian]

Well Cavalry can't actually garrison inside the building, they can only assault it (killing stuff, then heading back).

Only Infantry, Monstrous Infantry, Swarms, War Beats and Monstrous Beasts can occupy a building (I know mounted models have a combination of the two above, but they are considered Cavalry/Monstrous Cavalry for the rules and won't abandon their mounts, ever)

Here, you need as much time as you can buy, before enemy units engage you in the watchtower, that's why The Sun King sugests not taking it right of the bat. Controlling the building is about attrition, and the fact that only 1 unit can assault the building each turn, which means you have to worry about 5 turns of combat, nothing more!

So, as always, place chaff (Dire Wolves, Fell Bats) in front of the most killy enemy Unit, even if they overrun into the watchtower, they can't enter combat that way. Terrorgheist/Varghulf/Vargheists should flank everything hazardous trying to gain the tower. The more turns your opponent stays from killing stuff in the tower is one more turn of IoN you have!

 

[Paran]

I never thought of blocking with chaff as overrun doesn't really help the attacker. Not occupying the tower is interesting as well. Especially as we have some units with a move of six and van hels. I am looking forward to trying some these tactics.

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Mortis engines parked behind tower is fun. Means their aura will 99% of the time damage opponent. They have to approach the tower or they have little chance of winning

 

[Scalenex]

Welcome to the forum Paran!

You do know that his cavalry could dismount and enter the building right?

Regarding the scenario and playing VC - I have to say that it's simply the best scenario for us. I have still yet to lose a battle that is Watchtower. Thing is, we are unbreakable and can raise our troops = bi-winning( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0NIMTPYYcU ).

Put your level 4(if you have one) Master Necromancer with LoV into the the watchtower and he is unkillable since the enemy has no way of targeting him. Zombs are fine when holding the tower but try 40 GG with GW and Banner of the Barrows... that will demoralize your enemy like nothing you've ever seen. Also another neat trick is that YOU SHOULD NOT put your troops into the tower if you win the roll off, simply just ignore it. The reason is this: Say you put a unit into the tower, the enemy gets first turn and can charge the tower right away. Since the unit in the tower won't have any support it's a big risk. But if you don't put a unit in the tower it doesn't mean that your enemy will get it since you cannot enter a building the same turn you march moved.

Don't try this when your opponents have a nasty Scout option like Dwarf Rangers or Ogre Maneaters. It really sucks to not have the Watchtower and still go second.

How come no one has suggested ghouls for defending a watchtower? With a limit of 10 models that's 20 attacks against 10 attacks most of the time.

 

[Demian]

All our Units can be raised back, so all of them (who can garrison) can defend the tower.

The thing is, no unit can grow beyond their starting size other than zombies. If by turn 4-5 you have a Unit of 80+ zombies inside, there is little chance you'll lose, specially if you keep backing them up with more IoN, augments, hexes on enemies, etc.

Yeah, Ghouls are nice, Grave Guard are just as nice and cost 1 point more!

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Does the watch tower have a model capacity it can hold?

 

[Paran]

A building can hold a single unit of any size.

 

[Pridster]

Mother of god i thought it was just 20 :O

 

[Demian]

It's 20 if you decide to control the Watchtower from the begining of the game (you may deploy a Core unit inside)

And that's why The Sun King said not to do so. Our core is weak, and 20 models will be overthrown in turn 1, so... it's better to take it later in the game (even if you go second!)

1. March everything, including Dire Wolves/Fell Bats in front of units seeking to garrison inside the tower.

2. Enemies won't gain control of it on their turn

3. Decide if it's better for you to garrison inside a vast unit of... 60+ zombies with a Necro in it supported by 2 Mortis Engines, or if it's best if you munch all stuff with Black Knights/Terrorgheist/Varghulf/Vargheists and then hold the middle.

 

[Pridster]

It's 20 if you decide to control the Watchtower from the begining of the game (you may deploy a Core unit inside)

And that's why The Sun King said not to do so. Our core is weak, and 20 models will be overthrown in turn 1, so... it's better to take it later in the game (even if you go second!)

1. March everything, including Dire Wolves/Fell Bats in front of units seeking to garrison inside the tower.

2. Enemies won't gain control of it on their turn

3. Decide if it's better for you to garrison inside a vast unit of... 60+ zombies with a Necro in it supported by 2 Mortis Engines, or if it's best if you munch all stuff with Black Knights/Terrorgheist/Varghulf/Vargheists and then hold the middle.

i see so if i sit outside for one turn a unit of any size can garrison it

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

alittle broken considering i normally play with 100 zeds in a unit