What is so good about Anime?

[Grish]

Anime is huge. A lot of people watch hours and hours of it.

... I don't get it.

I have downloaded 'top' animes (Akira, cowboy bebop, ninja scroll, Spirited Away couple others like bleach (part of it, couldn't finish it) and I've been very disappointed. The only one I liked was Spirited Away, and all others were, at most, luke warm. Terrible dialogue, thin characters and plots, even the voice acting. I mildly enjoyed Cowboy Bebop though, mainly for the music, grabbed the tracks for it and put it in my car.

I find it strange as plot and dialogue should be stronger in an anime than other story lines, as it's just as easy to draw sci-fi, fantasy, etc as mundane scenes; but it just isn't the case.

So can some anime lovers out there enlighten me? I have seen movies and documentaries that have altered my thinking, caused me to question things and have broadened my mind. Anime has just been mental drivel... not even close to adding anything meaningful to think about. Not trying to be offensive, but... just dull for me. Most movies are as well, but there ARE thoughtful movies out there as well.

 

[Uziel]

I must admit that I'm not a huge Anime fan, but I've watched some of the same ones as you Grish, and some others, and I do see your view. The only one I remember that stands out a bit is Hellsing, which I must admit I enjoyed at one time. Maybe I've been watching the wrong ones, but I hold the same view as far as the characters go in general in Anime movies. Maybe the language barrier makes it harder for us to relate to, and that is a bigger part of the problem than we think. It seems to be popular in japan (a.k.a the land of tentacle porn), so there must be something too it on some level...

 

[Zhatan]

I'm not really a fan either, I've seen a few and some were ok.
Kinda liked Howls moving castle and Ghost in the shell.
I prefer regular movies though.

 

[Grish]

They seem to be like comic books; a collection of powers and items and 'getting stronger'. Lots of people read those as well.

Would that be an accurate comparison? I never liked comic books either. Some graphic novels I really liked though; V is for Vendetta, the Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns. Just because it's in comic/anime form doesn't mean you can't have in-depth, meaningful characters.

Where are these types of animes, if they exist? I've heard really good things about an older batman series; but I'm not sure if that falls under Anime.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Try "Outlaw Star" Mate and "Escaflownay".

You get different anime for everyone's tastes, personally if you want deep plot try watching ghost in the shell, its movies are very complex but I find the series of episodes more enjoyable from 2nd gig.

 

[Whisky Priest]

'Batman: the animated series' isn't actually anime, as it is American and it needs to be Japanese to be anime - its a modern Japanese cultural thing. Note that this is despite batman having been drawn by a Japanese animation studio as nowhere in the west was good enough.

Batman, as a result, does feel very anime.

I massively recommend you watch it though. Start at episode 1 though. The first two to three series (NOT SEASONS GRRR) are fabulous and retain a really dark and sinister atmosphere despite being incredibly good fun. After that, it gets more kiddified as they add characters like robin and batgirl

Also recommend the 'Mask of the Phantasm' movie and the Batman Beyond movie 'Return of the Joker' - the uncut version. Both are truly excellent (surprisingly so in the case if the batman beyond movie).

 

[Whisky Priest]

In terms of anime itself - it's horses for courses. There is so much to choose from there will be something there for everyone - there are soooooo many different styles and genres to choose from. The ones that people have mentioned are pretty much the ones that have had most commercial success in the west. Its a good starting point, but there is more!!

Saying you think anime is rubbish because you saw one you didnt enjoy is rather like saying all books are rubbish because you didn't like Jane Eyre.

The one thing you can't avoid though is that anime is Japanese, and is recorded with a Japanese vocal track. Many of the dialogue problems come from the variable quality of the translation in terms of subtitles or English vocal track. Lots of anime (like the stuff coming out of studio ghibley for example) tends to be quite verbose anyway, and sometimes contains Japanese concepts that don't translate well anyway.

If you have the time to put into it, it'll be worth it and you'll find something you like. If not, not a problem - anime isn't for everyone!

 

[Lynks]

very good words there Whisky! I'm a fan of anime myself, mostly because it does delve into areas and plots that aren't really explored in western media. I'm not as vehement as some fans and won't go to the crazed extent to say 'it's da best medium evar if you don't liku are de worsts' but i will try to sell it when it comes up in converrsation ;P for me it's all about the diversity and the fact that there are stories that would normally only be explored in particular age groups in traditional media that are presented to different age groups in anime. There seems to be more experimentation. some good ones I'd reccomend would be Ghost in the Shell, Darker than black, Neon Genesis evangellion, the melancholy of Haruhi suzumiya and clannad. THey cover a pretty wide range of things and they're all kinda unique.


I tend to avoid the long run anime series like one piece, naruto or bleach (i've watched bleach though) that go for 100s of episodes and go for the shorter, one or two season animes because they're more 'fresh' and original and only have a limited time to express their story in a closed environment. I find short run series tend to have that feel like watchmen or V for vendetta.

And if you get into anime, you can be part of an ongoing war between those who like subs and those who like dubs! (subs for the win!)

 

[Grish]

Well, I watched about 20 different ones to give it an honest shot, mainly pulled from best lists.

If I look up IMDB and watch the top 20 rated movies, I guarantee I will enjoy half of them at least.

I'm not basing this on one book, or 20 random anime movies. I just don't find they have intelligence or depth. If you know of some that do, let me know.

Some movies off the top of my head that made me think:
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Fight Club, Magnolia, The Game, Clockwork Orange.

Intelligent, thoughful movies, even with all their flaws.

 

[spineyrequiem]

I haven't watched much, though I did watch both versions of Hanaukyo Maid Tai, which I enjoyed, and a couple of other things. Where possible, I far prefer the original Japanese with English subtitles, as English dubs are often rather poor quality and high American accents really irritate me.

 

[Infernal Skull]

Like all media forms, there is "good anime" and "bad anime."

You mentioned the voice acting, and I'll just say that the actors are much less emotive in some English dubs than in the original Japanese. (The Japanese voice acting is more convincing, but the english dubs sound fake and like they are hamming it up, if that makes sense.) So listening to the Japanese or English version can have an impact on whether or not you're "pulled in" by the story and characters.

Here are some of the best anime films I've ever seen. I highly recommend:

Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.
There's a new edition released by Disney with an English dub (Patrick Stewart and Edward James Olmos do two of the voices). The dub is pretty good, and I'd recommend that version.

Battle Angel Alita
For this one, watch the original Japanese. Action, cyborgs, scrap heaps. One of my faves. It's a two-parter, so don't quit after the credits for the first half start playing (but maybe that's just a concern for the VHS version).

Giant Robo: The Day the Earth Stood Still
This is a seven part series, and is available on DVD. If you go with the DVD, look in the special features for the "Original Dub" it's much more characterful than the new dub. and fits the series' comic-book feel. The new dub is awful. Haven't listened to the original Japanese. If you can't get the DVD, it looks like the whole series is on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10SzKVG4bkw

If you're into classic GI Joe, watch GI JOE: Resolute. 'Nuff said.

If you're a fan of classic Transformers and haven't seen it: Beast Wars is great. The first season has a bunch of "throwaway" episodes, but it does a great job establishing the characters and settings. By the time they reach seasons 2 & 3 it's all gold. The animation gets better and there's an ongoing story arc. If you like that, then follow through into the Beast Machines sequel series.

Check those out and I hope you enjoy them!

 

[Seneschal]

Death Note. A very, very cerebral anime that only got better as time went on. I still haven't seen the ending (thanks, Adult Swim for not keeping the right to the series) myself but I've heard great things about the final season. You can't really skip episodes with this one and trust me, you wouldn't want to.

Full Metal Alchemist. Great characters, funny moments and excellent action scenes make for an enjoyable show. The FMA Brotherhood series is closer to the original manga and I actually prefer it to the original show. This one is highly recommended.

Bleach. It has the best fight scenes of any anime I've watched. The show is far too long (366 episodes and some seasons are totally filler) but when it's good, it's great.

 

[Whisky Priest]

Well, I watched about 20 different ones to give it an honest shot, mainly pulled from best lists.

If I look up IMDB and watch the top 20 rated movies, I guarantee I will enjoy half of them at least.

I'm not basing this on one book, or 20 random anime movies.  I just don't find they have intelligence or depth.  If you know of some that do, let me know.

Some movies off the top of my head that made me think:
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Fight Club, Magnolia, The Game, Clockwork Orange.

Intelligent, thoughful movies, even with all their flaws.

I think you've made my point for me actually. With the exception of Magnolia (which I found borderline unwatchable) I've watched all of your quoted movies all of the way through and with the exception of A Clockwork Orange, which has genuine depth, they are at best pointless whimsy.

But then, that's my opinion and that's the point. This is opinion vs opinion, and that means neither of us is wrong as opinions are not empirically measurable. The thing to remember though is that if your opinion is that anime is not deep, someone out there will hold the opposite opinion. And that's fine.

If you want a truly deep anime, though, watch 'Grave of the Fireflies' from studio Ghibli. It is about two young children during and after the firebombing of Kobe in 1945 by the USAAF. The film is deep, moving, thought provoking, quite difficult to watch in places and ultimately, devastating. It's a lot like Schindlers List in that it is a truly superb movie but not one you can say is truly 'enjoyable'.




Just as an aside, I did enjoy 'the game' - the michael douglas / Sean penn movie? I just didn't find it terribly deep. The message was pretty the same one as in 'a Christmas carol'.

 

[Whisky Priest]

Well, I watched about 20 different ones to give it an honest shot, mainly pulled from best lists.

If I look up IMDB and watch the top 20 rated movies, I guarantee I will enjoy half of them at least.

I'm not basing this on one book, or 20 random anime movies.  I just don't find they have intelligence or depth.  If you know of some that do, let me know.

Some movies off the top of my head that made me think:
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Fight Club, Magnolia, The Game, Clockwork Orange.

Intelligent, thoughful movies, even with all their flaws.

I think you've made my point for me actually. With the exception of Magnolia (which I found borderline unwatchable) I've watched all of your quoted movies all of the way through and with the exception of A Clockwork Orange, which has genuine depth, they are at best pointless whimsy - entertaining, but nothing more profound.

But then, that's my opinion and that's the point. This is opinion vs opinion, and that means neither of us is wrong as opinions are not empirically measurable. The thing to remember though is that if your opinion is that anime is not deep, someone out there will hold the opposite opinion. And that's fine.

If you want a truly deep anime, though, watch 'Grave of the Fireflies' from studio Ghibli. It is about two young children during and after the firebombing of Kobe in 1945 by the USAAF. The film is deep, moving, thought provoking, quite difficult to watch in places and ultimately, devastating. It's a lot like Schindlers List in that it is a truly superb movie but not one you can say is truly 'enjoyable'.




Just as an aside, I did enjoy 'the game' - the michael douglas / Sean penn movie? I just didn't find it terribly deep. The message was pretty the same one as in 'a Christmas carol'.

 

[Lynks]

totally forgot about grave of the fireflies... that's an intense experience

 

[Zephyr]

I like Anime myself and I boy do I love Akira!
There is indeed some bad stuff out there but most of what people do not like has usually to do in that you have to immerse yourself a little bit in the culture that it was made in. Most of the anime is just weird to us, dialogue might seem out of place(though this could be due to really bad translations too, nonsensical chronology, sudden images being used etc. etc.

In Western culture much of the story is already known to us through references or is explained through dialogue, in most anime a single falling leaf fro ma certain tree is cue enough if you know what it references. I invested a lot of time looking into theology, mythology and cultural-anthropology of many cultures all over the world so I "get" most references.
It is like the constant Star Wars references we got, we only have to see a large black helmet and heavy breathing and we know what's meant but imagine never having seen or even heard of Star Wars. You just wouldn't get it. Most of the more popular anime these days are heavily influenced by Western culture and can be followed but they miss the depth the more "vague" ones have.

For atmosphere, if you like the gothic aesthetic watch Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. The first one is a bit out of date but good too, it is just that Bloodlust is one of my favs and looks great too!

 

[Adam_Barrow]

I've been good friends with a Korean guy for years, and he's always showing me anime shows and movies. I've found there's so much out there I can find something I dig and not have to be a giant weeaboo either. Cowboy Bebop was good. Also, Death Note ruled hard. My advice is find what you like and skip the garbage. Treat it like every other media--some of it is gunna just suck.

 

[Sanai]

I have downloaded 'top' animes (Akira, cowboy bebop, ninja scroll, Spirited Away couple others like bleach (part of it, couldn't finish it)

Those are terrible animes. Go watch Death Note, Evangelion, Jin-ro: Wolf Brigade, Paprika, Howls Moving Castle, Porko Rosso or Nausicaa of the Wind. Now those are real animes for adults.

 

[Whisky Priest]

I have downloaded 'top' animes (Akira, cowboy bebop, ninja scroll, Spirited Away couple others like bleach (part of it, couldn't finish it)

Those are terrible animes. Go watch Death Note, Evangelion, Jin-ro: Wolf Brigade, Paprika, Howls Moving Castle, Porko Rosso or Nausicaa of the Wind. Now those are real animes for adults.

A word of warning about Evangelion - it's really not for everyone. Unless you are prepared to put some effort into it, the plot is largely impenetrable. I did not like it.

I also found Nausicaa to be a bit dull. It does have a very serious message attached to it though.

The rest are all pretty good, and Porco Rosso is truly brilliant - one of my all time favourites.

 

[Sanai]

Eh, I found the plot of evangelion pretty easy to follow.

 

[Whisky Priest]

I found it all just a bit mystifying.

But as we've been saying - it's horses for courses.

 

[Sanai]

Try looking at it as much a work of art as a story. Things are there just as much as metaphor as anything else. The original evangelion is particularly fascinating to watch when you know about what was happening with the creators at the time- towards the end they were under alot of pressure and stress and they chose to channel that into the series rather than hide it.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Digimon series for the win!

Sorry I couldn't help it....I loved it as a kid

 

[Grish]

I may try some of the suggested ones, but many of the suggestions I've already watched (downloaded and burned):
Evangelion, Jin-ro: Wolf Brigade, Bleach, and others.

Ones that have perked my interest are:
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (for Patrick Stewart if nothing else), and Grave of the Fireflies which I've seen on top 10 anime lists out there.

We'll see how those go! Thanks for the suggestions guys.

 

[Zhatan]

I just watched one I really liked.
It's a anime from 1982 called Arcadia of my Youth or Waga Seishun no Arukadia.
I'd recommend that one.