What models to get next

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MTD

Zombie
Aug 31, 2022
35
Zombies
34
Hi fellow death lovers.

I reaching out to you for and advice or suggestion. I have started with this hobby this summer and I have been playing my first army - Soulblight Gravelords, weekly ever since. Lately I have started getting a bit stuck, although I love the army and enjoy it much, I am at a point I feel like I dont know how to progress with it. I prefer playing 1000 games as it is faster, but all my friends in the game club always push me for a 2000 one, as they wanna take their more fun/expensive models.
Here are all the models I own:

20x Deathrattle Skeletons
20x Grave Guards
5x Black Knights
1x Wight King on Skeletal Steed
5x Blood Knights
3x Vargheists
1x Vampire Lord
1x Vampire Lord on a Zombie Dragon

That all is 1575 points.

1x Necromancer (been ordered, should be coming i a week)

Im afraid to go in to the Vyrkos models, as they have a subfaction keyword, and I dont know if/how I will be able to play them if i wanna try another subfaction.
Vengorian Lord/ Lauka Vai are a bit odd to me, I cant place them as a battlefield role. The Miasma aura is nice, but only in 3". Is it worth it?
Manfred/Neferata are very frigalie models, right? But at the same time, I think at least one of them is necessary for a competitive list, no?
Im also considering buying a Coven Throne/Palanquin as a second hand, as the model is very old and I dont think it is worh its 55 Euro. Do you think it will give me some flexability as a support/versatility piece?

I wonder what should I buy next to be able to play 2000 point games, and in the future to have more model options to be able to swap my game style, have more fun, and keep my interested in the SG army.
Any advice is welcome!
 
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MTD Great question! In order to answer it fully I think we need to find out what type of play you like: Are you into tankiness/attrition? Offensive lists with high damage output? Magic heavy armies? Mobility shenanigans? All-comers lists?

In general if you want to stay competitive then I would suggest getting Neffy and Manny - they work well in all army builds IMO. I see that you do not have any zombies - is it because you don't like them? They are probably our best unit and with this season's Bounty Hunters phasing out soon they will become high tier again soon.

Cheers,
Sunny
 
Hi Sun King, thanks for responding,

I have played a bit of tankiness/attrition games already. I think I have read your great SG guide more then 10 times. It is great and it is strong, but after a 6 hour game against a nurgle player, I REALY had enough :) So im done with tankiness/attrition games for now. I would like to focus more on High Damage and mobility shenanigans at this point. I also have a strong feeling that Santa Claus/My Wife will be bringing me Nagash if I was a bad boy this year :D, so I would leave the magic heavy for when he comes.

Zombies initially I didnt like them (models and idea), and I focused on Skeletons, but Skeletons are the defensive side of the coin, and Zombies are the aggresive one, correct? So I havnt had any experiance with Zombies. What are you thoughts on them (considering Galet vet are still here at this moment)
 
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If you don’t like attrition then I would highly recommend going Kastelai and filling your battleline with Blood Knights. A starting point could be something like the following:

- Army Faction: Soulblight Gravelords
- Army Type: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Mannfred Von Carstein (380)
- Spells: Fading Vigour, Invigorating Aura
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)*
- General
- Command Traits: Swift and Deadly
- Deathlance
- Artefacts of Power: Fragment of the Keep
- Mount Traits: Foetid Miasma
- Spells: Amethystine Pinions, Invigorating Aura
BATTLELINE
Blood Knights (390)*
- Standard Bearer
- Kastellan
Blood Knights (390)*
- Standard Bearer
- Kastellan
Deathrattle Skeletons (80)*
Blood Knights (195)*
Deathrattle Skeletons (80)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1950/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 
How Subfaction Stuff Works:

You can play any Soulblight Gravelords unit or hero in any Soulblight Gravelords army, regardless of subfaction. However, if a unit or hero already has a Subfaction keyword (ie, the named heroes, and the cursed city Vyrkos units), then that unit does not gain the subfaction keyword of the army you're running them in, and any units that don't have your army's subfaction keyword don't benefit from subfaction special rules - neither those of your army's chosen subfaction nor those of their own subfaction.

For example, you can run Belladamma Volga in a Legion of Night army, but she won't be able to use their outflanking special rule since she's not Legion of Night, nor will she be able to re-roll her casting rolls since you aren't running her in a Vyrkos army. But you will be able to use all of the rules on her warscroll, and you will be able to benefit from the general Soulblight Gravelords faction rules like the 6+ ward save and spell lores.

While the non-hero cursed city Vyrkos units aren't so great outside of a Vyrkos army (and even in one, usually), several of the named heroes are good enough to be worth considering even outside of their faction, especially: Beladamma Volga (point for point the best caster in the faction), Prince Vhordrai (hits harder than a generic VLoZD, and now exclusive blood chalice largely offsets the inability to take a defensive artefact), Gorslav the Gravekeeper (the guaranteed recursion is easily worth his small points cost if you're running zombies), Mannfred Von Carstein (decent beatstick, decent caster, super vulnerable to shooting but almost impossible to deal with for dedicated melee armies), and Cado Ezechiar (solid beatstick in a small frontage for a reasonable points cost, notably has no access to subfaction rules at all).

The long and the short of all this is that you can get whatever units you like and still run whatever subfaction you want. HOWEVER, the cursed city units in particular (vargskyr, blood born, zombie ogres) are kinda meh, as are the characters outside of Gorslav. As a rule, GW likes side game stuff to be ~technically playable~ in the main games, so that people who buy into the side games have an extra use for the stuff, but they don't want those units to be a regular or core part of how the main game factions play (ie they don't want those units to be good), since side game stuff generally doesn't come with a commitment to long term support. So it is with Warhammer: Cursed City units, so it usually is with Warhammer: Underworlds & WarCry warbands. Sometimes something accidentally good sneaks through (eg the OBR underworlds warband), but that's the exception not the rule, and when it happens nerfs are rarely far behind.

..............

As for what I'd recommend you get next...

It's hard to make suggestions for SBGL. Even discounting side game baggage, the warscroll pool is incredibly deep and surprisingly well balanced interally. Far from perfect, but, again outside of side game stuff, there's very little one can point to as 'must take' or 'never take' options.

Out of the 1500 point games you've already played, what do you feel have been your stand out units? Do your grave guard do more work for you offensively, or your blood knights? What have your opponents fielded that you've struggled with? Does your army feel like it's missing anything, tactically?

How has assembly and painting been going? Mostly smoothly? Are you able to crank out basic infantry at a reasonable pace (perhaps via slapchop or other speed painting methods), or is painting very slow going for you? If you're getting comfortable with a method of painting that gets stuff done reasonably quickly then you might want to consider pushing your numbers some more with zombies, but if painting is as agonizingly slow for you as it is for me, then you might prefer to keep things elite with more blood knights instead. Or even some vargheists - functionally similar to blood knights, not quite as good on the table, but faster & easier to paint due to being all skin & fur and not having to worry about weapons, armor, cloth, and chain.



My own first suggestions:

Looking at your list you seem to have a decent start for most kinds of units, enough to get a feel of whether you might want more infantry or more cavalry for instance, but you seem to be lacking in fast chaff, with only a single unit of black knights for that. I personally find this sort of unit invaluable - something speedy and inexpensive and preferably summonable that you can use to grab objectives, block out deep strikers, screen vulnerable units from enemy charges, harass enemy objective campers, absorb 'unleash hell' commands before charging with more valuable units, or even just clog up advancement lines by parking in the enemies face and inviting them to waste a turn charging you.

So the first thing I'd consider adding are:

some dire wolves: battleline. better for screening, deep strike blocking, and harassing objective campers due to unit size, but more expensive per unit also due to unit size, almost obligatory if you go vyrkos with different ways to summon some. In particular are solid at keeping your VLoZD safe from charges for a turn, though they can't fly so that might restrict its early game movement.

and/or

some dire bats: better for sacrificial charge blocking and absorbing unleash hell due to being faster and cheaper per unit, but not battleline. IF you use them to screen your VLoZD you might need multiple units, but depending on your typical terrain set up they might still have an edge over wolves.

Entirely apart from their tactical uses, wolves and/or bats also add a nice gothic horror 'creatures of the night' kind of vibe that fits the army well.


Next I would either choose to go elite or hoardy.

If you choose elite, pick another box of blood knights, or maybe vargheists if you find your current blood knights to be a pain to paint. Then consider a vengorian lord as a hero option to support them in at a points cost inbetween the wight king (who's kind of baddish, and in any event might be better used to support gravesite-deploying grave guard) and the VLoZD (who's stronger, but lacks the vengo's supportive debuff aura, and in any event might be better served as an independent offensive piece). Alternatively, you could grab Beladamma Volga as a support hero emphasizing spellcasting over physical support. Obviously better in vyrkos than outside of it, but even outside she's good enough to be worth her points. You'll definitely want some dire wolves if you run her, plus maybe a second box for her spell (or maybe a box of fenrisian wolves for her spell, since you shouldn't need a full 10 for that, and fenrisian wolves more closely match the wolves on her model).

Alternatively, if you choose hoardy, pick up 2 boxes of zombies and start cranking them out slapchop style. And once they're done, and you've gotten in a game or 2 to try them out, maybe 2 more boxes. Then maybe pick up a corpse cart. And maybe Gorslav the Gravekeeper off ebay.


All of that together should take you far enough above 2k that you'll have some choice of what to take from game to game.


Worth noting that I don't particularly recommend Neferata/Mannfred/Prince Vhordrai as a next purchase since you already have a large centerpiece monster in the VLoZD. The big named heroes aren't bad at all, but unless you specifically want to run a double-dragon build with vhordrai + VLoZD I'd encourage you to get a bit more of a grounding in troops before picking up a second big centerpiece monster (or a third, I guess, after the holiday Nagash, but Nagash is imo more of a special occasion model for big games rather than a regular bring & battle piece).
 
Thank you Sception , you are a godsent! Such an elaborate and helpful response. It was exactly what I needed!
The thing about Cursed City units is a nice info from behind the curtains of the business! And yeah, SBGL army is nicely balanced with options, that is probably why It is hard for me to pick my next units :)

To answer your questions:
  • What do you feel have been your stand out units? - VLOZD and GG are my heavy lifters, they do most of the dmg work in my games, and summonable help me stay on the board and surprise with ressucrection at free objects
  • Do your grave guard do more work for you offensively, or your blood knights? - GG do and I love them, but are very cumbersome and hard to reach another target after the first. Blood knights I hear are great, but I guess im not using them correctly as they feel OK-ish in my games. I keep them at the flanks and try to reach over my enemy and hit infantry if possible for Riders of Ruin possibilities
  • What have your opponents fielded that you've struggled with? - Im constantly having trouble with Elite units like the new Chaos Chosen and especially Kurnoth hunters with scythes!! I would love a sudgestion or a solution for them :)
  • Does your army feel like it's missing anything, tactically? Not that Im aware of. But maybe my knowledge isnt enough to know that im missing something :)
  • How has assembly and painting been going? - Im loving the assembly, it is my favorite part!
  • Are you able to crank out basic infantry at a reasonable pace - I would say im about avarage
  • Some vargheists - functionally similar to blood knights, not quite as good on the table, but faster & easier to paint - I just finished painting a unit of Vargheists last week, it was a lovely straight forward process. But can you elaborate on the comparison with the BLood knights please. In my experiance, Vargheists are very fragile. Can deal with cheap/damaged units, but against anything mid-elite and they die in 1-2 turns
All of your model recommendations helped me know where to look next. Thank you again 👍
In the meantime, I have gotten a half build, brand new Morthis Engine/ Coven Throne model for 25€ :) Do you think it can be an alternative to the suggested Vengorian Lord? It feels like it can be a nice supporting piece. I just cant wait to try it in a game. The Coven Throne looks very strong with his Command on VLOZD, GG or Blood Knights/Vargheists , and its spell sounds amaizing with the Reanimated Horrors trait. Im thinking of a list with many summonables to achieve that + the Legion of Blood's Immortal Majesty
 
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Hey MTD.

I suppose the Chosens you're facing are nurgle marked with the associated banner?

If so, their main (only?) weakness is MW. Unlike Warriors, Knight and most Melee Heroes they don't get the 5++ against MW.

Fortunately we have two things that counter this unit. (and Nurgle mark)
First to sort of counter the Nurgle mark all our deathrattle (Skellies units) in Legion of Blood ignore negative modifier to hit/wound if a vamp is around.

Then for the chosen specificaly you have GG and Zombies (best choice), both unload quite a bit of mortal wounds, as long your are the first to fight. For zombie you d'ont even care about your subfaction (since you are only interested in your 6 to hit)

40 Zombie with Crimson feast should make quite a dent on the Chosen on average you'll do 13.3 MW and at best he'll have a 6 ward so you have very good oods of slaying 4 out of 5 Chosen. If he's palying reinforced unit of nurgle chosen, he's a nasty friend :D

Beware that if you don't fight before him, your 40 zombies will die for good this time.

Against scythe Kurnoth Hunter. Our best answer is Neferata. Herself or a VLoZ buffed with her signature spell will laugh as the scythe bouced on him (her warscroll save allow the target to ignore any negative to his armor save but not positives. So you can easily get a 2+ unrendable save)
 
re blood knights, yeah, you do want to move in from the flanks, ideally positioning in a way that all 5 knights get to swing, but some of the target unit doesn't.

riders of ruin basically helps you get past blockers & screens to charge valuable units behind them, or get out of combats you don't like, or just repeat charge in later turns. damage directly caused by ror is a bonus, but not the main point. note that ror is not a retreat move, so stuff that prevents retreating can't stop it.

on their own they're a solid flanking option to either go after weaker backfield units on their own or tip the scales of a combat involving your main offensive threat, but if you want to try using them as a primary offensive threat in and of themselves, consider taking multiple units, & pairing them with one or more of:

vengorian lord. fast enough to keep pace, have some decent attacks to help them with tougher units, plus an antirend aura to shore up their saves against more elite foes

dire wolves/fell bats. again, fast enough to keep pace, these units can help screen the knights from enemy charges, and can charge in ahead of them to absorb 'unleash hell' reactions, & make it harder for enemy units to consolidate against the knights, making it easier to set up the situation mentioned earlier, where all of the knights can attack a target unit, but only part of that unit can attack them back. that sort of thing makes a big difference against the kind of elite units you mention having trouble with.

Named Characters: again, you can play any character in any army, but you'll naturally want to look at the characters associated with your subfaction first. some notable characters for supporting blood nights include:

neferata: her command ability & especially her spell work great with blood knights, & she's no slouch herself.

belladama volga: her casting is very solid, she goes well with dire wolves, which already pair well with blood knights, & her killing moon spell is a solid buff. she's your best option for putting the purple sun on the table, which really helps when facing enemy elite units, where -1 rend is often not quite enough.

radukar the beast: fast, hitty, summons some extra wolves (significantly offsetting his points cost) and a buff ca covering a huge area when he charges. arguably better supporting gravesite deploying grave guard, but nice either way.

...

In general grave guard hit harder point for point, and can concentrate /a lot/ more damage output into a small frontage thanks to their tiny base size. If you're fighting enemy units that are so dangerous that you absolutely must wipe them out before they get to seing at all, then grave guard are what you want. & if you're doing well with them, do consider trying some zombie hoards to go with them

Blood knights have an edge in durability & maneuverability, though, and that can be a big deal when you need to get to well screened targets or objects behind enemy lines, or when getting pelted by low quality ranged attacks or hoards of weaker enemies.

grave guard, with their fragility, slow movement speed, and the loss of their double move battalion also tend to rely on gravesite deployment to get into key positions intact and on time, and if a canny opponent steals the first turn they can block out your midfield gravesites altogether, forcing burried grave guard to deploy out of gravesites you kept back in your own deployment zone, kind of defeating the point.

....


re vargheists: they are similar to blood knights in that they have similar speed & attack quality, are often used in the same way, and benefit from support by the same units & characters, hence being a possible stand in.

their fragility for the cost hurts though, so yeah i do prefer them as a deep striking harassment unit, landing 9.1 inches behind enemy lines & hoping to make a long bomb charge, taking advantage of their unit champ for the charge reroll combat ability to reach not-quite-50% odds of pulling it off.

still not great, though. tbh I don't use vargheists very much, & never really have. if they had 3d6 charge instead of the deep strike rule that would be another story altogether, especially in legion of night, but oh well.

...

finally, please be aware that while i talk a good game, and have been playing age of sigmar (& before that warhammer fantasy) for many years, my experience with 3e in particular is pretty minimal, so do take my advice with a grain of salt.
 

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