What units do I need next?

[Woolly.Mammoth]

I would like to start playing WFB games but I'm not sure what I will need for my first battle.

Here is what i have so far

CORE
30 Sword skeletons, full regiment + screaming banner (205)
60 Zombies (180)
10 Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast (110)

SPECIAL/RARE
5 Black Knights, full regiment, bard/lance, Barrows (215)

LORD/HEROES
1 Necromancer/Master Necromancer
1 Lord/Vampire/Isabella
1 Lord/Vampire/Ghoul King
1 Mounted Lord/Vampire (horse)
1 Mounted Lord (zombie dragon)

What unit should I get next/more of? How should I set up my lord/heroes?

 

[Blutsauger]

Probably can't go wrong with another box of Black Knights. Then you can get some nice toys, depending on which ones you want. Some Blood Knights, a Mortis Engine, A Terrorgheist, whatever takes your fancy really. Maybe another box of skeletons to bring them up to 40.

Oh, and definitely some Dire Wolves. They are a must!

 

[Skittelz1981]

you can play 2000 pts with that 500 core


you will need:
- a Terrorgheist
- dire wolves
- spirit hosts (at least 2)
- Crypt Horrors (go for at least 6)
- some more knights (if you want to play with them)
- at least 1 more necromancer


Since i am someone who want everything of its army in multiple, i might be abit of a bad example but my advice is: buy everything 3x that way you can field various setups that are completely different each time you play (which i find to be most fun)

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

- I need a terrorgheist as i also need the lord to put on my zombie dragon.
- I was thinking I might need a corpse cart which would include a necromancer.
- I have conversion idea for a pack of 5 dire wolves. Why are they so important?
- Why crypt horrors? Why so many? Why not Vargheists? I don't really like the model and i haven't found anything i love for a conversion.

Another group of black knights seems like a good idea. Why would I not want to play with them?

 

[Borgnine]

Black Knights are awesome - great on the battlefield and great looking models. And the infamous Black Knight Bus with a Vampire Lord ;(

As for the wolves and crypt horrors - wolves are quick, cheap, have vanguard and are expendable and work WONDERS when redirecting enemy's scary units into obstables or making them waste turns - they don't do the killing but make the killing easier for other units Crypt Horrors work as upgraded zombies - a terrific tarpit which can inflict a world of hurt on some units, especially infantry, they are also regarded as one of our best units. But if you don't like the models, that's a very good explanation CH are rather static, while Vargheists are aggresive and very quick - they are also useful, but they use a different strategy and they won't stand up to anything too tough for too long.

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

I haven't heard that about Crypt Horrors. Sure they are regen+5/5T 3 wound tanks with 3 S4 poisoned attacks each and 6 movement. That sounds sweet. If I was planing on running a double mortis engine build its a no brainer. But since the mortis rules scare the crap out of me, I'm not headed down that path.

The poisoned attacks are not that appealing if you have a Crypt Ghoul regiment to fill that role and Danse Macabre to get them there. You'll get more poison for your points that way. But IF you aren't bringing any Ghouls then I'm sure it's nice to have some Horrors.

I feel like every unit we get is a tarpit, I'm not excited about another one. I'll be bringing plenty of zombies and sword skeles.

Lastly and most horrific of the horrors, is their 3 LD. as soon as your general dies even a group of 6 can be completely wiped out by the time you have a chance to recover. Additionally, they are a big target for any nasty Ld-test trick.

Vargheists cost just a bit more. In exchange for 1 toughness, poison and regen+5, you get:
- +1 attack (frenzy)
- +1 strength
- March 20" , unrestricted (fly, vampric)
- swiftstride charges (best of 3D6)
- Immune to Dead-General Crumble
- Fly over obstacles for fun charges (using 10" for Move)
- shooters get -1 tohit (skirmisher)
- 7Ld against Ld tests

Personally I think id rather go for Vargheists as they fill more of a unique role.

 

[Skittelz1981]

Pros for the Crypt Horrors:

- Relatively cheap for a very strong unit
- alot faster than ghouls
- can be used very aggressively to bump into whatever you want them to
- 6 CH are good for 19 attacks poisonous on s4 + 3 stomps. i prefer that to s3 and fielding a horde of ghouls (which is more expensive and the only way to get more attacks on the same frontage)
- The regen is golden and saves alot of wounds alot of the time, where ghouls just tend to die like flies. Ofc watch out for flaming attacks.


The vargheists are far more situational imo. Theyre very fragile, frenzy can be a bitch, especially for overruns.
Crypt horrors always are the safe bet and can be used excellently every time you field them, Vargheists are harder to manage, sure they fly and march 20" but a crypt horror marches 12", at turn 2 you can charge them into combat only requiring a 6 on 2d6.... who needs swiftstride
CH can be healed better due to Undead rather than Vampiric and usually are alway in range of a spellcaster, whereas Vargheists often tend to end up behind enemy lines, on their own, out of range. This makes VHDM a boon for the horrors and puts the gheists in the awkward position of relying on ws4. If your gheists dont hit first theyre usually in trouble, getting slayed before being able to do their full potential.

Theyre both good units and it all depends on your list and what you want to do as a tactic. Certain armies are going to be terrified of Gheists, others will have alot more trouble with Horrors.
I use them both but lately ive been fielding the Horrors in groups of 8 and its proven to be very, very efficient. Holding up and killing stuff while holding alot of points. Something i have not been able to achieve with the gheists.

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

It sounds like the natural instinct with vargs is to fly them way out by themselves and get into sticky situations. But I'd think the best use of them would be to use their flying ability to hit the flank of a unit being tarpit by zombies/skeles. Wipe out the unit quickly then march to the next while your units grow even larger. Vargheists are also undead so they can heal from your Nehek spams as well.

Unfortunately, I see that their frenzy forces them to charge. That sucks. That makes their 4T much worse. Their built to be a fun tactical unit and then they suck all the tactical control out of them. They would still be fun if you keep them in the back so they charge with your units and stick around the Nehek spams, but the forced charges make them too random.

I just cant love crypt horrors. I don't want to pay $141 for 9 of them. I guess I could buy a $40 box of ogres and convert them. I'm going to start looking onto conversion options.

 

[Skittelz1981]

The Vampiric rule of the Vargheists makes that they can only heal 1 wound from IoN, unlike the CH that can get 1+casterlvl.
Charging a flank with Gheists when their tarpitted by a zombie-unit, usually results in crumbling of the gheists because the zombies are just bleeding insane amount of CR. Ofc this all depends on what unit is being tarpitted.

Vargheists usually turn into warmachine hunters, chaff hunters and sometimes you can get them in a rear or preferably a flank of a stronger unit that u can try and break or destroy. Ofc theyre limited to infantry most of the time since the cavalry is having 2+as which s5 usually is mediocre against.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

@EU Zombogres for the win. Way cheaper, and lots of fun converting. And the Ld to Charge with Vargs usually isn't as bad as the forced Overrun. That's what gets them in sketchy areas if you're not careful. Take advantage of their Flyer free reforms when possible.

 

[Banshee Talespinner]

If you want usable Core, invest in more ghouls. 40 horde is preferred, 30 is doable. Couple them as a horde and add Vanhel's and suddenly they bristle with autowounds.

If you truly hate Crypt Horrors, you can always use the points for classic Grave Guard. Not good if you head into a mostly-cavalry theme, but otherwise decent. And the models look cool.

Get a Varghulf. You can use him in 750-pt games and up. Never a bad drop.

 

[Burnanation]

I <3 varghiests, and agree with everything above. I had not intention of putting together any CH... until I realized that CH can get the 1+ wizard level on an IoN.

So they can be healed at twice the rate, if not more, than that of varghiests. That really tipped the scales for the usefulness of the Crypt Horrors.

Side note: I built the Varghiests, and I found it really easy to model the leftover Crypt Horror bits so they looked like they are climbing out of the ground. So only 2 boxes of Varghiest/Crypt Horrors netted me 6 Varghiests and 6 Crypt Horrors. Don't think I could have done anything really productive with just the leftover Varghiest bits.

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

I see. So you allow these guys to charge in front, absorbing blows with 5T and 5+ regen and piling on healing from Nehek. The poisoned attacks guarantee wounds, if maybe a bit slower than you'd like. But the CH will be around long enough to outlast whatever you're fighting.

Can you stick a vampire in with them to protect against crumble and Ld tests?

GW CH are $16 a pop. I don't love the idea of undead ogres but that's clearly the cheapest avenue at under $7 each.

For nearly the same cost, I could by a bunch of this guy:
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/deadzone/plague/product/plague-stage-1a-1-figure.html

Now were talking. These to me easily look like ghouls which have gorged themselves on vampric blood until they have grown massive with hardened regenerative plates. Since they are all the same pose that only makes it more fun for modelling having to cut them up and green stuff custom poses. My only concern is that they might be a little bit ginormous. I'll start with one to see how it looks. These are the beasts I want leading my army to battle.

 

[Emicrania]

really nice idea man.i took the Werewolves that i plan to convert and modify a bit

 

[Skittelz1981]

8 Crypt horrors lasted 3 turns against a Dark elf Dreadlord on Black Dragon and the Bloodwrack Shrine together.

turn 1, 2, 3, 4 these two units were busy working on CH while vamplord went out killing other stuff and the shrine, dragon and lord were taking wounds.
314 points really well spent against the 600 that were crashed into them

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

I see crypt horror legs on ebay for $17. With that you can make 6 models for $11 per model.

The model just looks a little off to me, and as a VC user I'm spoiled for conversions. Take nearly any model and give it a skull for a head, cover it in blood or give it fangs and you have a relevant VC model.

I looked around a lot for alternate models. I have an awesome werewolf model from bombshell miniatures i'd love to use but its metal and would be very hard to pose. The second coolest werewolf are the FW skin wolves. I just received 3 models from them so i don't feel like ordering more. Ive never seen a lot of good werewolf models, which is odd because I've seen a lot of really cool ones in movies (underworld) and in games (skyrim).


But this Plague A1 figure i've had my eye on for a while. I'd be excited to have them leading my army. They look like a giant zombie mixed with a chaos hellbrute. Maybe a little too much 'resident evil' but with the right colors and conversions I bet they will make great crypt horrors

I like to expand with new units and play a few games with small units to get started. Then the units i enjoy playing with, I'll expand with more models. So the plan is to make some crypt horrors, dire wolves, and possibly grave guard & terrorgheist anything else?

What makes a Vargulf a good choice? It stats are great. 6+ Regen could be better, and its got crap Ld. Wheres it's FLY? But it looks like a beast in a half that's assured to keep ripping it up even after your general dies. I'm sure you get a lot out of this beast, but you pay for it.

Anything else i need?

 

[Borgnine]

That's definitely a good strategy, play some games and see what works for you and what not

As for the varghulf - He competes for rare points with much more destructive Terrorgheist, and is maybe a little overcosted, but he definitely has it's uses He goes on a relatively small base, so it's much harder to hit with a war machine and it's more manouvreable. He has vampiric rule which allows him to march even when far from the general, so he becomes a sucessful flanker and has a tunderstomp, which with his normal attacks make him quite formidable in combat. He has a similiar role to vargheists - he wrecks enemies flank, but he trades movement, as he has land M8 for much higher toughness, with T5 and 4+ regen. Sometimes he's useful, sometimes not

As for what more you could have - your plan is definitely okay, maybe some hexwraiths? Veery useful when facing armored enemies, albeit less so when they are both armored and have magical attacks

 

[Wolf1771]

Those mantic plague stage1A models look very similar to the berserker in gears of war!

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

So i think for my first game I'll shoot for this:

Lord on barded nightmare (general). Lance, lvl-4 vamp wiz. Quickblood, Sup. Horror, Fear I. Nighshroud (474)
W/ Unit of (5) Black knights. Standard regiment w/ Banner of Barrows (210)

Vampire, lvl-2 vamp wiz. Heavy Armor, Quickblood, Ogre Blade (214)
w/ Unit of 30 Sword skeletons, full regiment + screaming banner (205)

Necromancer, lvl-2 Vamp wiz, Master of the Dead (120)
w/ Unit of 60 Zombies (180)

Unit of 10 Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast (110)

@ around 1500 points.

Additional units to add later will be some crypt horrors, 3 at first and build up to 8. 5 wolves. And then, bolster whatever unit I am enjoying.

I have a cool flying vampire model. Whats a good setup for a lone vampire assassin w/ Flying Horror? I think ill have to wait until i have the points to fit in a flying ghoul king.

 

[Banshee Talespinner]

Classic-looking VC army. If no rares are available, sounds allright.

You might want to FearBomb up the skellies. Already has Screaming Banner, so why not rip FI off the Lord and slap it on the vamp with the skellies. For more fun, turn him or someone else into a Death wizard and hope for Doom And Darkness, so that enemy units can roll Fear/Rout at 3d6 lose lowest with a 3-value penalty. Twice. Good times for the weak of heart.

 

[Borgnine]

If you're going for 1500 points, max points you can assign for lords is 375, so your is too expensive if going by the army composition rules. But if just experimenting how the game and unit works, it should be fine

And for flying vampires - they work the best when starting in units and flying out of them to charge something, surprising the unexpecting enemy. As lone characters they should hope that enemy won't have any shooting attacks or it could end nasty. But having it's offence boosted would be most beneificial - you can't make him invulnerable if he's going solo, his best choice is to kill quickly something from the flank.

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

Lord on Barded Nightmare (general). Lance, lvl-4 vamp wiz. Quickblood, Nighshroud (429)
W/ Unit of (5) Black knights. Standard regiment w/ Banner of Barrows (210)

Vampire, lvl-2 Vamp wiz. Heavy Armor, Quickblood, Fear Incarnate, Ogre Blade (234)
w/ Unit of 30 Sword skeletons, full regiment + screaming banner (205)

Necromancer, lvl-2 Vamp wiz, Master of the Dead (120)
w/ Unit of 60 Zombies (180)

Unit of 10 Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast (110)

Terrorgheist, Rancid Maw (235)

429 Lord, 495 core, 354 Hero, 445 Rare/Special (1723)
Should be legal

I'd love to have a death mage. Ideally a lvl2 vampire with dark aura for Doom & Darkness combos with Banshee/Terrorgheist. But I think its too risky. I should have 3 Nehek spammers and backup for crumble. Maybe I'll pump up the ghoul unit w/ a banshee and death vamp when I have more points.

I think to round it out, I'll get 5 Wolves (50) and 5 Crypt Horrors (inc. Haunter). that's 1973. Throw in a few more core to a unit and that should be a good 2000 point army.

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

Custom Crypt Horror