What's useless?

[Mortis]

So, I think it can't have slipped under anyone's nose that the general consensus on the new VC on most other sites is that they are damn overpowered.

But what's useless in the new book? Are there any units you would never spend a point on? Any powers or magic items?

Shoot!

~Mortis

 

[Mr Wight Guy]

Items that are just plain useless (for the most part!):

Scabscrath- Why take a magical weapon that just causes terror???? Please, if anyone can give me a "logical" answer, please do!

Accursed Armor- minus 3 to WS is duh-duh-duh-dumb for a character that is traditionally a CC monster (ala vampires). Giving it to a Wight King would be even dumber!

 

[Danceman]

In addition to the above(scabscrath and accursed armour).

Cursed gem of Lahmia... Not going to help my opponent to kill my general.
The Carstein Ring. Yepp, not impressed with this one. Nice ability but for that cost I want a garanteed return.

Cursed Pennant of Mousillion. Bring a banner incase the unit get killed? Sorry, while it has a "tactical" value I dont plan to give sacrifical units banners.
Banner of Everlasting Death. Dont see much value for this one either.

 

[Reincus]

Scabscrath- Why take a magical weapon that just causes terror???? Please, if anyone can give me a "logical" answer, please do!

Wight kings and necros can't take bloodline powers? Or maybe your bloodline powers are taken up with magic stuff. Not saying I'd do it, but terror has it's uses, it's just not hard to find in our list.

 

[Kaptain Von]

I'd take Skabscrath if I'd used up my general's Powers allowance on casty stuff and left him rather vulnerable in combat - in such circumstances, terror is to be welcomed. Anything that keeps the foe off the back... I think you'll either take it in every game or not at all.

Query, by the way: how does the presence of stuff you'd never take indicate a lack of overpoweredness? Feels like we've turned two pages at once...

 

[Grish]

We've heard this overpoweredness with High Elves, Wood Elves, Thorek Armies...

It's the same people that keep saying this stuff. "I lost?! Your army is l33t and da cheeze." Anyways, until VC start winning every tournament (like some WE's have been doing all year) then I'll agree with it.

As to what's useless, I'd also throw in the blood line power that makes you Ethereal. Give up all your magic items and have a character that can only be harmed by magic (or CR) for its large cost? No thanks. Maybe if it cost half of what it currently does.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Agreed about the ethereal rule, it needs either reducung in costs or some other bonus, to risky for a Lord, not good enough for a Hero with all the other choices avaliable.

 

[Lord Fear]

Well so far pretty much every tournament report I've read with new VCs has seen a very strong showing for VCs- often the only thing stopped them win has been the soft scores (or a double one miscast result). I've yet to lose a proper game with my Vampires. (the losses in my sig are with 6th edition, a silly game with a Zombie Dragon vs a Star Dragon list, and team games, like one that revolved around capturing buildings where I brought no ethereals to be nice, was banned from raising into buildings whilst both my opponents had scouts to take the buildings/ slow me down!)

I don't think Skabscrath is useless, simply having a magic weapon can be handy, and you might want to spend more points on bloodline powers. However, in an army chocablock with rares that cause terror, it loses its value pretty easily. Some of the banners are very poor, and the Gem of Lahmia is only good if you use it alongside Isabella (and interpret the rules to let you use the Gem before Isabella's ability which kicks in at the start of the magic phase).

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

The other items I see as little / no use:

Frostblade - Too expensive for what it does, only useful if you know you are going up against ogres
Black Axe of Krell - Stupid to put it as Wight King only becuase who's going to choose this over the Sword of Kings plus its abilities are rubbish until it is confirmed you cannot save / regen against the additional rules.
Cursed Book - Maybe if it was permanent or its one - off was stronger but i can think of better things to spend my 20 points on (Nightshroud, Black Periapt)
Banner that saves you one wound from crumbling if you roll 4+ (can't remember the damn name!) - just take the warbanner.

I think the characters are ok except I would have liked to see the option for a stronger lord in higher points games, vampires are good up to 1000, counts 2000 - 2500 but over that I don't think they have enough survivabilty considering how other armies can be tooled up in combat to overpower the count especially when you consider what happens to our army when the general dies.

Zombies I think they have gone to far in making them weak, with such low stats across the board you would be lucky to score a single wound, no good as bunkers, the only thing to do with them is tarpitting. I won't be paying out points for them though I will have some for raising. I think they should have kept them maybe at T3 as well.

Spirit Hosts - no rubbish but when faced with all the other options and the fact that a lot of armies now have some version of magical missiles these aren't a viable choice for me though again I will have some for Wind of Undeath.

 

[NVNC ID VIDES]

I actually kind of like scabscrath..... you can have a flying, scouting, terror causing vampire for under 200 points. that can heal itself... summon zombies, etc.

granted, I haven't tried this actual build, but I will.

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

Bat swarms - never liked them, and never will.

And basically the crappy magic items that cost more then their opposite blood line powers that do the same thing. Damm you Scabscrath!

Although I do like the spirit hosts though

 

[Grish]

I'd use Scabscrath. I think it'd be good on a flying vampire / warmachine hunter (against low LD armies like empire or O&G) or against O&G in general (especially combined with the bloodline power that gives -1 to LD checks).

 

[ACe]

Scabscrath can be very useful. You can't have a normal vampire that scouts, causes terror and flies because hunter in the dark + flying horror costs 55pts, that's too much for a ordinary vamp. BUT! He could take scabscrath, Aura of dark majesty, talisman of the lycni. That would sum up a 9'' movement, magical attacks, terror causing (-1 to enemy Ld) vampire who costs 170pts. Very handy in a bigger game against for example skaven or the empire.

There's one banner I can't understand why would you take it instead of a Warbanner: Banner of the Endless Nightmare!! Haven't I noticed something awesome about it or is it just crap. I mean, if you take Warbanner, you get +1 combat resolution, but if you take The banner of the Endless nightmare, you must have 4 additional ranks and you mustn't be flanked (or reared), then you get the +1 combat resolution.

So what's with this banner?

 

[ACe]

Sorry grishnakh99 I didn't notice you post, but yeah, agreed.

 

[Grish]

The thing wiht Banner of Endless Nightmare is you can take it as well as the Warbanner. You would always take the warbanner over it, but it's another way of getting a static +1 CR into your lists. I think it's a pretty good banner, one I can see myself using on many occasions. Warbanner is nearly always in my list. Add in those banners, and Walking death, and BSB... well. If the enemy isn't immune to fear, he'll be autobreaking most likely. I actually think it's one of the best banners we have.

With ranks being equal and both sides having standards, giving Banner of Endless nightmare, + outnumber, +walking death and you start with a +3CR for not that many points. It's quite the hurdle to overcome.

 

[ACe]

Still it's way worse than the warbanner. It should cost like 5pts less or something...

 

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

As Grishnakh99 has pointed out, although there are better options, some of our 'useless' items allow us to shift abilities from Powers to Magc items, of visa-versa, or allows us to have two of the same or similar item.

The warbanner is very good and better than most other banners, but when you have three ranked units of skeletons, which yo can make bigger, and a unit of Grave Guard, they can all have useful banners, or the Warbanner can go with a BSB as well as one of the other banners.

 

[ACe]

It's quite unfair that the dwarves can take as many warbanners they like, in theory.

 

[abhorash_chile]

I think the frostblade is really useless because it takes all of your magic item allowance, so no defence for your vampire lord. That could be your doom on a 2000-2999 game.
The hand of dust is another item I think is overpriced. You can only use it when you are in combat, it takea all of your vampire magic item allowance or half of the vampire lord magic item allowance, and can be easy dispelled. And can be exausted!. 2d6 st5 impacts don't justify that.
The carstein ring is another overpriced item, cost too much and for that cost I expected to work more than one time, or give a ward save in addition, or return to unlife with full wounds.

 

[Grish]

Well... sure it's worse than WarBanner. But the warbanner is amazing for it's cost. If there was no warbanner in the game, would this be worth its points? For sure. +1 CR is great and an extra 5 skeletons is great too, to ensure outnumbering. Great synergy.

 

[Mortis]

Personally I also think Beguile is pretty useless (and overpriced) for what it does.

A question: Would anyone ever use the Hunter in the Dark power?

As for units, are bat swarms viable? They are kind of mandatory in background terms, but seem pretty weak. Swarms usually have the role of tying other units up for a flank/rear charge, because they are unbreakable and have multiple wounds, but with VC, all units are unbreakable. What should make you pick the bats?

~Mortis

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

Useless? Nothing is useless, its just less useful than other stuff!

 

[Werewolf]

Re: Banner of Endless Nightmare.

As well as the obvious, that you may have already taken the warbanner, don't forget that you can include both +4 ranks and a warbanner in the same combat (or even the same unit with a BSB).

Big unit with the Warbanner joined by a Walking Death BSB with the Endless Dead banner is 9CR to start with...

Anyone who fears you had better be very quick at chopping skeletons!

 

[Mortis]

Useless? Nothing is useless, its just less useful than other stuff!

You're name isn't for nothing, eh?

~Mortis

 

[Kaffl]

A question: Would anyone ever use the Hunter in the Dark power?

Yes, it's actually very useful. Between March Blocking and the ability to have instant flank/rear charges (new Zombie units), it's a very useful power to have. I've used it multiple times, and if you aren't going for a particularly competitive list it's loads of fun. The reason why it's not competitive is because your Vampire can be killed more easily, and then your down in the magic department.

Useless = Zombie Flank Charge. It works well in theory, because you guarantee outnumber and you deny ranks, but Zombies are nothing but free CR, and that's never a good thing. Well, it's okay if they're Flank Charging to support another unit of Zombies, because Zombies are to VC what Peasants are to Brets. But if you've got the models to perform the Flank Charge, why aren't the models in the first unit of Zombies? It's not farfetched to summon a new unit of 80 Zombies over the course of 2 turns, even in 2K.