Which models to use as bases?

[Baslakor]

Hi all,

Quick question. What are the rules for bases (eg: for conversions)? The dragon for example has a extremely large base, making it vulnerable for lots of attacks. I could use the High Elf dragon (chariot-base) or the older model (50x50). What are the limits though? If I decide to place my spirit hosts on a 50x50 instead of 40x40 and use them for blocking the LoS, is it considered cheating?

Thanks!

 

[Alabaster427]

Hi all,

If I decide to place my spirit hosts on a 50x50 instead of 40x40 and use them for blocking the LoS, is it considered cheating?

Thanks!

That is cheating. Also, because it's a swarm and ethereal, your opponent will argue that he can see right through it, regardless of base size.

For conversions, the only real rule is that the base size of what you have has to match the model's base that you say it represents. WYSIWYG sometimes comes into play, but it just depends on how much you converted. If you take the old Zecharias/ZD model and put it on a 100x150 base, you might be ok without any converting because it's actually a zombie dragon, but if you take the HE dragon that you mentioned above and put it on the 100x150 base without actually changing the model, but use it as a TG or ZD, it's probably not going to fly (pun intended). Also, putting a Vargheist on a 50mm base without changes and calling it a Varghulf wouldn't work either (for example)

 

[Baslakor]

Thanks for the reply,

The old Zecharias ZD used a 50x50 base. However, the model is still game legal, so wouldn't it hypothetically be legal to place the new dragon on such base as well (assuming it fits).

Since Im doing quite a lot of conversions I just want to be sure, because sometimes changing the base creates such a big (dis)advantage, yet the rules don't really mention any of this.

 

[Alabaster427]

Thanks for the reply,

The old Zecharias ZD used a 50x50 base. However, the model is still game legal, so wouldn't it hypothetically be legal to place the new dragon on such base as well (assuming it fits).

Since Im doing quite a lot of conversions I just want to be sure, because sometimes changing the base creates such a big (dis)advantage, yet the rules don't really mention any of this.

As far as I know, the Old 50x50 base for Zechariah can only be used as an Abyssal Terror, but an older (not necessarily by age) player would have to let you know on that for more input. I know that he used to be ok with 8th edition until they released the dual kit that had the new ZD model, which is when it changed to the 100x150 base.

Don't think of it as changing the bases, think of it as changing the entire model (base included). If you want to take a HE dragon and turn it into a zombie dragon, you are changing it's appearance, it's stats, it's rules, and it's base, because they are two completely different things. It doesn't create a disadvantage because you are using the same exact thing and rules that everyone else using a zombie dragon does; yours just looks different (maybe even cooler). Not changing the bases gives you an advantage over not only your opponent, but also other VC or UL players, which is not in line with the spirit of the game.

Really, the only time that base size doesn't matter is for unit fillers (zombies, skeletons, skaven slaves, etc.) or for things that don't really have a base (I.e. war machines and Black Coach).

 

[Adam_Barrow]

You can use Zac's old 50mm Zombie Dragon all you like. The base it came with is game legal, no matter what updated models look like. It's beardy to some people, but legal. And it let's people use models they've already painted without pissing them off.

 

[Baslakor]

Thanks. Was wondering, because some conversions didn't fit the original base, leading to a philosophical dispute.

 

[Alabaster427]

You can use Zac's old 50mm Zombie Dragon all you like. The base it came with is game legal, no matter what updated models look like. It's beardy to some people, but legal. And it let's people use models they've already painted without pissing them off.

The only reason I thought that it was legal was because 7th edition and 8th edition (for a while) had no other model for the ZD. Back in 6th, (and I could be wrong about this) I think the only way to take a zombie dragon was with Zechariah atop it as a single choice (i.e. couldn't take ZD with anything else and Zech couldn't be on foot or any other mount). Speaking of The Everliving, I sure do miss infinite dispel scrolls...

 

[Adam_Barrow]

The only reason I thought that it was legal was because 7th edition and 8th edition (for a while) had no other model for the ZD. Back in 6th, (and I could be wrong about this) I think the only way to take a zombie dragon was with Zechariah atop it as a single choice (i.e. couldn't take ZD with anything else and Zech couldn't be on foot or any other mount). Speaking of The Everliving, I sure do miss infinite dispel scrolls...

Right? He's my all time favorite character. RIP

 

[Alabaster427]

RIP??? His name is The Everliving... There is no rest for him. Your own signature...

 

[Adam_Barrow]

@Alabaster427 *Spoilers* He went out off screen in ET: Nagash, but he was punk rock about it. He refused to bend a knee to the Supreme Lord of Undeath and thus ended Zacharias the Ironically Named.

 

[owain_b]

I think you are right whatever the base the model comes with is the base to use with that model so zach on 50x50 is legal, but I think when it comes to converting a model into something completely different. I think you would need to put the conversation onto a base of the model you are trying to achieve. Otherwise you could end up with people abusing it and having Tbats converted out of dark elf dragons to get them on chariot bases. There aren't any really rules for it, but I think you would have a hard time telling your opponent your great swords on 20mm bases you have converted into chaos warriors are legal. Extreme example but I think you need to put conversations on the correct current base size to remain in the spirit of the game

 

[Alabaster427]

@Alabaster427 *Spoilers* He went out off screen in ET: Nagash, but he was punk rock about it. He refused to bend a knee to the Supreme Lord of Undeath and thus ended Zacharias the Ironically Named.

Does anyone ever really die in the Warhammer world?

 

[TheTrans]

Got a magma dragon for my ZD, it came on the monstrosity base also, so it would seem there is a few things that actually use that base aside the the TBat and ZD...