Who's to blame?

[Abbysal]

Very deep. I'd like to just put in that although I'm an atheist I do think that religion at it's core is a very good thing designed to create a good social structure to any civilization, it's just a shame that it has been as easy to use it as an excuse for war, instead of the nice set of guidelines and ideals it was originaly there for.

Let's face it though the ancient civilizations where easy to fool. Think of how messed up it would all be if David Blaine had a time machine! "This prayer is winging it's way to you o' father, through your sons name, David Blaine amen".

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

Actually science has never proved anything at all.
The only empirically proveable fact is that ones own mind exists, and it can only be proven to oneself. Anything else could be an illusion.

Only maths can prove anything.
And solipsism? Really? :slapface:

 

[Grish]

That's an argument that doesn't get you anywhere. If you honestly believe that, say that to your employer/wife/girlfriend. You'll either prove that your own mind is cruel, or something exists other than you. Most people live their lives as though an actual world with actual people exist. It's just a mental exercise to argue the other way.

Her:"We have no heat? Why haven't you paid the heating bill?!"
You:"Heat is a figment of my imagination. In fact, you probably are too. Even this call of duty game I've decided to play instead of going to work; all illusions. Why not have fun?"
Her:"...I'm leaving."

I've had these discussions in the past. Basically it was so annoying it came down to me threatening to do something to the other person. If they truly believed nothing existed, give me your wallet so I can take all the cash in it. All imaginary anyways right?

 

[Sanai]

I don't believe that nothing exists. I just know that logically, only one fact is actually... well a fact. Everything else is theory based on our limited perceptions.

 

[Grish]

Yeah, it's just an exercise, but does nothing to improve anyone's situation.

Also from what I remember, "I think therefore I am" is not true. Definitely not empirical (proven by tests). It means something is. Because there is something thinking, it is not necessarily you.

Also, does something have to exist to have thought?

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

And if you are going to say that the only thing you know exists is your mind then how do you know even that exists ? How do you know its not a computer program like a really advanced game of the sims ?
As a disclaimer I think that thats bollocks .

 

[Bravo_10]

Honestly, I think the Matrix explores some really interesting things about the nature of consciousness. It poses a situation where everything around you does, in fact, not exist.

 

[Sanai]

pietr, even if it is a program.... its still a program that exists.

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

Then there would be something that is not you that exists .