Why take a Necromancer?

[MarkM]

Vlad,

I used to run the WL under 6th, and he's even better at T5. Your other suggestions are also interesting for a <max character build. Cheers.

 

[VladtheLad]

I used him a few times myself. How much more expensive is he now?

 

[MarkM]

Same points from memory. The trouble is when you spend 15-20 mins trying to read everything, you miss bits.

One nice thing I noticed, all skeleton units can take a magic banner up to the price of a warbanner!

 

[Tal Rasha]

The main reason I'm going to use nercos, is cos they can ride the Pimp Truck of the undead: The Corpse Cart. Even just seeing that model can make your enemy shiver in his skin! And as we all know(?), it does give some major advantages over a Vamp Thrall, or is that just vamp now? Meh, they'll always be thralls to me.

First off, vamps are a lot harder to kill than necros. If I had a choice, I would take vamps every day and twice on Friday. However, there is a point restriction, so if I need to shave points, a necro is a good place to start. He's at least half the cost of the vamp and the vamp can take 50 more pts in abilities than the necro, making him even more expensive.

If I do field a necro, I don't think I'll put him in the corpse cart. Reason? The CC by itself has regen, so those cannonballs are not quite as scary. However, put a character in that and you are an even tastier target, and the necro doesn't benefit from regen. I'd stick him in a unit of skellies or something if it was me. Only if I had nothing but zombies out there would the necro ride the CC. But that's just me. It sounds very tempting, though.

 

[thewrathchilde]

Basically - Necro can know certain spells without rolling, very handy and they look like they can't even kill a single zombie. Opponents often look over him while looking for juicy targets.

I disagree; one of the keys to defeating a VC army (at least in the past) is to mage hunt and knock down their ability to keep their army strong and moving. This is still going to be the case in the new list.

While the necromancer is still going to be cheaper and give you some reliability with spells (being able to pay for Danse); he is still going to fold like an Iteawon special (read: cheap suit) against any mage hunting model/unit. He does offer a cheaper character choice for those that don't want to spend 1/2 of their points on vampires and he still makes a decent scroll/item caddy freeing up points on your other characters for needed equipment. However, he is not the necro of 6th Edition and doesn't perform the same role.

With this being said I will most likely field one myself; though he won't be in a corpse cart but instead will be hidden in a unit or "free range" if my opponent doesn't have the tools to hunt him successfully.

WC

 

[The Dead of Night]

Using zombie bunkers and similar tactics wont be as vible this time around either. Firstly you can't hide in zombies anymore, but most importantly the spell range is lower. With zombie units in the way, your effective range will be near nothing.

We shall see what role necros are supposed to fill soon enough I guess.

 

[Lord Fear]

If th Corpse Cart is a "monstrous mount" rather than a chariot for a Necromancer, then the Necromancer can ride the Corpse Cart, join a unit and then still benefit from Look out Sir! in addition to hits being randomised to his mount. I think that's pretty survivable really

 

[Trentonator]

Why is anyone thinking of throwing him on a CC as a sacrifice? If people are gonna wanna kill him so much, get a super fast army and that and they'll throw all their ranged at it, and even if they don't you've still got another caster!

 

[thewrathchilde]

My philosophy is the opposite; why put the Necro on the corpse cart when the rumours indicate that both can be taken separately. Why create a larger target? Instead give them two targets to choose from and if they don't have good magic or shooting a solo necro can hide around units really well....much better than he could on a cart.

WC

 

[N.I.B]

*I moved the thread to Tactics, since that is what we're discussing*

So; mounting a necro on a Corpse Cart is generally a bad idea for survivability - unless you put him in a unit of Grave Guards. Sure, as the CC will probably be 50mm wide more models can attack the necro, but that's cool - since he'll be wearing the Nightshroud. Which means that the attackers first has to survive some attacks from your Grave Guards, and the 2D6 S2 attacks from the CC. And the CC acts as a huge unit filler, helping you with ranks and outnumber.

 

[rabz98]

has anyone tried to give the +1 to cast item to a necro???
I mean, he can cast IoN each turn 3 or more times with one dice and he fails only if he rolls one. If your opponent dispell them, his dd will finish very soon, and if he doesn't, casting 3 times IoN means a lot of stuff healed/raised...

 

[thewrathchilde]

has anyone tried to give the +1 to cast item to a necro???
I mean, he can cast IoN each turn 3 or more times with one dice and he fails only if he rolls one.

Good in theory, but not in execution. IIRC w/o the BRB in front of me a dice roll of a 1 or 2 is always a failure regardless of modifiers to the roll for casting. I think I would almost favor the Sceptre on the Necro over just about any other item- it will at least make the one spell a turn he is likely to cast (when you aren't trying to cast Danse) give decent results with at least 10 models summoned in your zombies.

Though I must admit, I am not sold on the pratical application of zombies now either.......in the few lists I have been considering generally I end up with one Necro packing a scroll and a powerstone (so he can throw more dice at that critical Danse) or the Book of Arkhan.

WC

 

[Cromenon]

And the CC acts as a huge unit filler, helping you with ranks and outnumber.

Sure the CC acts so? Or is it like:
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126702

 

[N.I.B]

Necro's can't afford the Skull Staff.

I belive it's the base size that counts.

 

[thewrathchilde]

what is the US on the cart?

....removed after consulting BRB on lunch......

WC

 

[Lord Fear]

Don't just guess the rules, look before you leap! The US on the cart is 3 or 4 I believe (Depending on if it's mounted), but that doesn't matter, as there's no restriction on US joining units. If a model has US5 then it can't claim Look out Sir! whilst in the unit however.

 

[thewrathchilde]

EvC,

you are absolutely right; when I got home for lunch I checked the book at it is >US 5 for claiming the look out sir. From what I saw the only prohibition from joining units is if mounted on a flying mount.

WC

 

[N.I.B]

Unit strenghts aren't noted in the army book for some reason, unless I missed it. But if it counts as a monster and has 3 wounds, it should be US 3 unmounted.

 

[thewrathchilde]

so the question is; is it more viable to take the necro on foot and the cart as a separate choice; or are you better mounting him and using him as a rank filler in a more expensive unit?

Generally I would favor keeping him on foot as it gives you more flexibility to hide him and bounce him from unit to unit- or out of a unit as needed. I think the cart would make him a bigger target and easier to get to. If you keep them separate it is more targets for your opponent but you lose the option of having the cart join a unit.

WC

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

The extra +1 for casting values for a Necromancer being on a Corpse Cart more than merits having a Necromancer on a Corpse Cart. The Cart having 2D6 attacks also merits it being a viable option.

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

Just to make sure - you can have a corpse cart wothout a Necro?
I'm still gonna put him on the ol' corpse cart tho. Mainly because I'm deeply in love with that model. All the shiney new pieces!

The one thing I'm not happy with is the size of it. Far too small!

 

[Synthesis]

The extra +1 for casting values for a Necromancer being on a Corpse Cart more than merits having a Necromancer on a Corpse Cart. The Cart having 2D6 attacks also merits it being a viable option.

This bit piqued my interest and I've been looking for this in my book for the past 30 mins, where did you find it?

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

You can have a Corpse Cart without a Necromancer. That is correct.

 

[Nedar]

I'm curious about that too Voltaire. Do necro's get a +1 to casting if they are mounted on a Corpse Cart? If so that would be stellar and a very important thing to know.

As for Necro's, I used to be totaly against them. Even now I don't really like them all that much. However, mounting them on a Corpse Cart and sitting them inside of a unit (getting their LoS roll to boot) is a great reason to take a necro. It is insanely silly that necro's don't have a special rule to join zombies, as it would make quite a bit of sense, espeicaly when stuck on a CC...but oh well. Stick them in a unit of ghouls or skeletons and danse them about with the spell+book or have the necro follow a unit of zombies that he can create 10-30 or so zombies a turn off of his single PD and the two pool ones if he wants them.

I prefer using my pool dice on my casting lord to raise skeleton units to big scary numbers from 10-15 starting values...but it might be nice to have a necro with a noirot scepter to help bolster the tarpits where needed (I'm against buying zombies however, skeletons do it better IMO).

Necro's also make good scroll caddies and Black Coach feeders

 

[VladtheLad]

Necro's also make good scroll caddies and Black Coach feeders

They also are useful to give with black periapt, their power dice to your next dispel pool, and then use periapt again to give it to the Vampire lord with skullstaff and summon ghouls