Why take a Necromancer?
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as I see it the only advantage to mounting the Necro is to enable it to join a unit. The trade-off being that your Necro will be a lot easier to get to and kill.
All in all having played a test game yesterday using the new rules I am not too thrilled with the new NEcro as a whole. With only one dice (plus the pool if needed) he can't do a whole lot and the Vampires are a lot more effective casting invocation (w/Lord of the Dead). The only reason I took him was to be a scroll caddy (1 scroll) and to guarantee I would have Danse on one of my casters (bought 1 x extra spell). However, with him only being able to through 2 dice at casting it I wasn't too successful in getting it off with him. Might be a better option to load him up w/ 2 x power stones for casting Danse but I have a significant problem with having to give a wizard 2 power stones to make him effective (and then for only part of the game).
WC
All in all having played a test game yesterday using the new rules I am not too thrilled with the new NEcro as a whole. With only one dice (plus the pool if needed) he can't do a whole lot and the Vampires are a lot more effective casting invocation (w/Lord of the Dead). The only reason I took him was to be a scroll caddy (1 scroll) and to guarantee I would have Danse on one of my casters (bought 1 x extra spell). However, with him only being able to through 2 dice at casting it I wasn't too successful in getting it off with him. Might be a better option to load him up w/ 2 x power stones for casting Danse but I have a significant problem with having to give a wizard 2 power stones to make him effective (and then for only part of the game).
WC
It IS a better option with power stones (or eve 1x dispel scroll and 1x power stone), because at least in my games dance makabre is game breaking in one certain point, and for example with the current rules I tend to keep my book of arkhan hidden before that moment arises.
With a power stone it'll be even better - you're almost guaranteed to roll 7+ with 3 dices (or even 4 if you're feeling lucky
), and if you time it correctly your opponent will be in a lot of trouble.So I'm surely going for at least 1 necro with 1 power stone and black periapt, or dispel scroll, or even 2nd power stone
the problem is that the 2 x power stones only really make him useful on two turns; the other turns he is only providing possibly an invocation that has a 50/50 of being successfully cast.....and of course that invocation can't be used to take anything except zombies above starting strength.
In the game I played yesterday first turn all he did was contributed his one dice to the periapt for me to recycle it a turn later into a dice the boss could use. Turn two he cast a two dice summon zombies to re-direct/block/speed-bump an enemy unit, turns three and four he attempted to cast Danse w/two dice......once he failed with a "5" the second time he succeeded with an "8".
I had him configured with 1 x extra spell and 1 x dispel scroll. I took summon zombies and dance for his two spells as I didn't think invocation would be as good on him since he couldn't take my skeleton units above starting and if he started the zombies then the vampires could power them up using invocation. As it turned out the one unit of 6 zombies ended up being the only unit I summoned all game. In the past (6th book) I used to routinely summon multiple units over the course of a game to negate ranks, claim board quarters at the end, etc. In this game I instead just kept the ranks full on my skeletons, replenished my grave guard, and broke most of the enemy units from the front after grinding for a few turns.
With the power stones he could "reliably" cast Danse twice but then the other 4 turns of the game he isn't contributing much; he could do 1 dice 50/50 summons or invocations or he can eat a pool dice to do 2 dice summons or invocations. Generally I think I am better off with taking summon zombies for the reason I mentioned above; though if I did take invocation instead while he wouldn't be as useful for keeping the skeletons big he could throw two dice on heal a wound on the Varghulf or heal up the GG if they have taken casualties.
WC
In the game I played yesterday first turn all he did was contributed his one dice to the periapt for me to recycle it a turn later into a dice the boss could use. Turn two he cast a two dice summon zombies to re-direct/block/speed-bump an enemy unit, turns three and four he attempted to cast Danse w/two dice......once he failed with a "5" the second time he succeeded with an "8".
I had him configured with 1 x extra spell and 1 x dispel scroll. I took summon zombies and dance for his two spells as I didn't think invocation would be as good on him since he couldn't take my skeleton units above starting and if he started the zombies then the vampires could power them up using invocation. As it turned out the one unit of 6 zombies ended up being the only unit I summoned all game. In the past (6th book) I used to routinely summon multiple units over the course of a game to negate ranks, claim board quarters at the end, etc. In this game I instead just kept the ranks full on my skeletons, replenished my grave guard, and broke most of the enemy units from the front after grinding for a few turns.
With the power stones he could "reliably" cast Danse twice but then the other 4 turns of the game he isn't contributing much; he could do 1 dice 50/50 summons or invocations or he can eat a pool dice to do 2 dice summons or invocations. Generally I think I am better off with taking summon zombies for the reason I mentioned above; though if I did take invocation instead while he wouldn't be as useful for keeping the skeletons big he could throw two dice on heal a wound on the Varghulf or heal up the GG if they have taken casualties.
WC
Ya. Necro's are alltogether worthless.
wrath, how exactly is putting a Necro on a CC in a unit making him easier to get to? He still gets "Look out sir", not to mention the CC is a lot safer in a unit than running around in the open (my opponenets always target my CCs).
Why necro's dont have a +1 to IoN on zombies in beyond me. I think Gav really screwed up on the necros. Putting to much emphasis on Vampires and leaving out key things a necro should be able to do. Necro's should be exceptional at summoning zombies since Vampires can't augment it much aside form a magic item necro's can get too (Which, btw...does the Scepter de Noirot only work on Raise dead? If so that is kind of lame
Would be nice if it at least gave +1 casting to IoN on zombies).
Necros are good for:
Hiding your CC
Cheap Scroll Caddies
Guaranteed Van Hels (That can't be cast very reliably)
Imparting an extra PD to your casty lord
Mabie a cheap holder of specific magic items (Staff of Damnation, BoA, BP of course)
What they are not good at:
Everything else
wrath, how exactly is putting a Necro on a CC in a unit making him easier to get to? He still gets "Look out sir", not to mention the CC is a lot safer in a unit than running around in the open (my opponenets always target my CCs).
Why necro's dont have a +1 to IoN on zombies in beyond me. I think Gav really screwed up on the necros. Putting to much emphasis on Vampires and leaving out key things a necro should be able to do. Necro's should be exceptional at summoning zombies since Vampires can't augment it much aside form a magic item necro's can get too (Which, btw...does the Scepter de Noirot only work on Raise dead? If so that is kind of lame
Would be nice if it at least gave +1 casting to IoN on zombies).Necros are good for:
Hiding your CC
Cheap Scroll Caddies
Guaranteed Van Hels (That can't be cast very reliably)
Imparting an extra PD to your casty lord
Mabie a cheap holder of specific magic items (Staff of Damnation, BoA, BP of course)
What they are not good at:
Everything else
I love my double-stone necro(s). Yesterday I turned 25 Skellies and Dansed them into the flank of 5 chosen chaos knights, broke them. Next turn I Dansed great weapon-wielding Grave Guards into the flank of a Giant, killed him and overran into the BSB with Banner of the Gods, killed him.
Danse Macabre doesn't need to deliver each turn, as usually it's 1-2 charges that are the game winners. You'll find, like wrathchilde, that they often stands about doing nothing for 1-2 turns (unless you fielded Zombies).
Danse Macabre doesn't need to deliver each turn, as usually it's 1-2 charges that are the game winners. You'll find, like wrathchilde, that they often stands about doing nothing for 1-2 turns (unless you fielded Zombies).
I am glad that the corpse cart isn't a chariot and so can't be killed with one S7 attack. I think I'll be putting mine in a corpse cart, joining some Grave Guard with halberds, have the NightShroud on. I think that will be adequate protection from a lot of charges.
I'm deffinatly taking 1 (at least) Necro, so he can bring forth my evil Danse Danse revolution without worrying about not having "The Movey/Re-Fighty Spell" factor. Just to have at least one mage with it will be enough for me. Kinda.
I think 1 necro is necessary and useful; however, past the first I think you start getting diminishing returns and end up wasting dice that could be better used elsewhere. Probably the confiugration I will end up with for my 1 necro is: extra spell x 1, dispel scroll x 1, power stone x 1. I would prefer to run him with double power stones but can't seem to fit the scroll on one of my other two characters in addition to their other equipment.
WC
WC
Necromancers are there to guarantee I have at least one or two Vanhel's Danses (depends if I want the Book of Runs Out The First Time It's Used Arkhan or not) and to carry the Skull Staff so my Vampires have more points allowance for nasty hitty things. That's probably about all I'd take one for.
Unfortunatley a necro can't take the skull staff as he only has a 50pt magic allowance, I personally think he's best as a scroll caddy
Definitely. You're never going to want to weigh your vampires down with dispel scrolls, and since you can load a necromancer up with two for a vampire's base cost, I'd go so far as to call him an essential purchase against magic-heavy armies.
Just like mine, max 16PD and 10DD :grin: I also have the skull staff,CC with Balefire and my necro in this has 2 Dispel scrolls although to be fair this is needed to protect my big wraith unit and ethereal lord.
On the other hand I could maybe get another CC totalling -2 to enemy spells and give the necro Hand of Dust instead of the Dispel Scrolls? what do you think, nothing like a surprise 2D6 S5 hit!
On the other hand I could maybe get another CC totalling -2 to enemy spells and give the necro Hand of Dust instead of the Dispel Scrolls? what do you think, nothing like a surprise 2D6 S5 hit!
Disciple of Nagash said:
Damn. Thought it was 35 points. Which item is again?
(spot the guy who knocked together his army last night)
@dicipleofnagash 
how many points are we talking here???
cuz i went reasonably magic heavy at 2250, and ended up with 10Pd and 6dd...
how many points are we talking here???cuz i went reasonably magic heavy at 2250, and ended up with 10Pd and 6dd...
Seeing as we aren't allowed to put point values, heres what the skull staff costs (in magic item form) : 2 war banners and a talisman of protection! Thats a lot of points!
No chance of a necro with this...
No chance of a necro with this...
@dicipleofnagash
3000pts, look in the army list thread for the ethereal lord army. It is an all out magical army though.
Yeah you could just grab a necromancer with Van Hels and some power stones, or use as a scroll caddy. Mounting on a corpse cart would enable it to join units and allow an easier time getting rank bonus, useful in low point games.
heres a good reason to take 2 necromancers a unit of blood knights, unit of dogs, and 2 necros equipped with power stones, and one has the book with bound VDM and buy VDM for them, and then 3 core units.. you charge the dogs and knights up lock the dogs into combat hold off a unit for turn then hit the flank on the next turn with the blood knights via the spell VDM.
From what I've gathered from other threads: Adding a necro to a corpse cart allows it to join units as its treated like a mount. That plus the cheaper points and the ability to load up vahals seems to make it worth it. I just don't understand why there isn't a "master necro" or the ability to increase there magic level beyond 1.
Ricw said:
I believe the lack of a master necro or any magic level upgrades is because GW have changed the fluff of the VC's slightly to make it more vampire-centric... which makes sense, really. There were also hints that there might well be a 'necro-centric' undead army in the future, but I won't be holding my breath; two undead armies is probably already enough.
So, yeah, basically its just that in the new AB, necros are in thrall to the vamp lord, kept around purely for raising and magic support - which is essentially how they should be used, in game.
manaknight
Ghoul
I tend to use one: cheap extra PD and DD. His job is to recover wounds of units such as knights, varghulf, general and so one, so he uses his dice and one of the pool's to recover (without risking a miscast with a vampire) and save the general's dice to more juicy invocations with one dice. I've also tried him with a black periapt and VDM, so he has two tries every turn with the two pool dice and the one stored in the periapt.