Wight king spam
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eggspr said:
It does depend on the table setup, but I have had situations where I've found myself thinking, "Man If I didn't have a vampire, who is mounted on a nightmare and not a skeletal steed, in my black knight unit here they could charge right through that impassable terrain there and flank that dude."
We lost a lot of tactical flexibility in the new book simply by not being able to mount vampires on skeletal steeds as opposed to nightmares. It was one of the "stealth" nerfs that they did to the army. Not that it makes the army any less competitive, but I do miss the flexibility we used to have.
@crafty0ne That sorta touches on my problem with this setup. You'll have to have the General somehow keeping up with unit to make it march. Whether that means a /second/ Cav bus, Flying Horror, or a flying mount. That could get expensive. I would almost prefer a VL in the BK bus, and a unit of three mounted WKs on their own tailing the bus to get opportunistic charges around/on whatever the BK bus hits.
I see your point Adam, this build is indeed expensive, but it's also pretty fearsome to have to buses with my posted loadout coming down one of your flanks. Not really sure what can stop them.
I dunno...
Sure, the enemy models can't see your WK only BK bus behind that impassable/building.
However, I'm willing to wager that the human overlooking the battlefield and moving their models can see them well enough
. Even if they must move past the impassable, u can't end your movement in the impassable so this 1 maneuver that an entire army build is based around is predicated on something that happens less than hexwraith drive-byes.
Though again... It would be fun
Sure, the enemy models can't see your WK only BK bus behind that impassable/building.
However, I'm willing to wager that the human overlooking the battlefield and moving their models can see them well enough
. Even if they must move past the impassable, u can't end your movement in the impassable so this 1 maneuver that an entire army build is based around is predicated on something that happens less than hexwraith drive-byes.Though again... It would be fun
Elbisrever
Ghoul
@ Johnny: Yeah, the Sword of Anti-hero's really can be the bane of "all your eggs in one basket" units, especially in the hands of an ASF model
Yep, all it takes is one enemy Lord with the Sword of Anti-Heroes and this strategy will go south, but that's true of every character wall, and people (Ogres, Bretts, O&G) still use them. I still remain unsold on fielding them mounted, but I think having them man the front of a Skeleton unit or something (akin to what O&G players do with their Big Bosses in units of Night Goblins) has potential.
Eggie, I think the main idea about the WK wall is that they have good toughness... not that they can ride through stuff, that is just an added benefit.
rothgar13 said:
True. I run character walls with my Ogre's a lot and have great success doing so. People have a really tough time dealing with Toughness 5, multi wound characters that you have to individually designate attacks against. A lot of the time I'll end up with a few wounds per model but none destroyed because they don't focus fire enough.
I think that it could work both mounted and dismounted. Advantage of mounted is delivering the unit where you want to more easily, plus a greater armor save.
The disadvantages are very notable, though - you're plunking down 570 for those 5 Wight Kings alone, let alone the cost of the unit behind them all (which clocks in at about 230 points). And to think, all of this for a unit that can't march outside the General's bubble (and thus needs to be baby-sat by your big man).
Yeah, 230. Not sure what happened there. Either way, my point stands - you're paying Deathstar-level points and you're not getting back Deathstar-level impact.
Well I do agree that it's not optimized or competetive, but I disagree that they won't have Death Star impact, if the plan with my list goes through and I get savage beast of horros off, everything in the WK's way is just pulp.
But now you're adding magic, and a truckload of points in Lords, because you need a Vampire Lord with Beasts (which can only be achieved by having another Vampire Lord in there). I don't see how this is feasible in a standard list (2500 points) without abandoning every pretense of having a competitive list.
If you field them on foot, on the other hand, you'll have enough points to field a Hero-level Vampire with Beasts, which is overall a much better gamble and use of your points. Additionally, you can use them to give you another foot threat units, whereas they merely improve the performance of Black Knights, who are already fairly solid.
If you field them on foot, on the other hand, you'll have enough points to field a Hero-level Vampire with Beasts, which is overall a much better gamble and use of your points. Additionally, you can use them to give you another foot threat units, whereas they merely improve the performance of Black Knights, who are already fairly solid.
rothgar13 said:
Exactly my point, I've never claimed that this would be the least bit competetive, but I have claimed that it would be hella fun
Your characters make way and the command go to the second rank. Gonna play a game today and be running a BK bus in lance formation with VL, VH and a WK with nightshroud in between them. Who cares about rank bonus! Both vamps have red fury. And there will be a L1 necro in there with book of arkahn in the damsels position. So when they hit I will have a T5 wall of blender Lord, blender hero and WK with GW. Low S hitting back mostly with most of the wall having a 1+, 4+ saves. Gonna run them 3x4. I'll post a bat rep and let you know how it turned out...Been dying to try this set up out....
erv:
erv:
Hanblack Nagash
Vargheist
Correct me if im wrong but doesnt the make move occur during their initiative step? So anything with asf could still butcher u as they target the unit still??
geordieclubba said:
Just checked the BRB. Pg 100 "At the start of the combat (before Impact Hits are resolved),..." so this would be before ASF as well.
Hanblack Nagash
Vargheist
Rizzo said:
Ive been cheated!
Uppercuts to the empire.
Glad I still won lol
Thanks buddy for the info (i dont own the rulebook)
What someone actually thought 'Make way' was AFTER someone had hit you with ASF? How would that even work if the character making way had ASF?
Well finished the battle last night....Long day...lol. The lance worked great. Thru in into the front of a unit of 50 dwarves with GW. Took me 2 1/2 tuns to hack thru them all. Only lost my hero out of the unit. I'll post a rep here in the next day or two.