wristbands of black gold vs comet of casandora

[piotr.kacperski]

Hi,

as in thread subject. I played on saturday and had argument if wristbands of black gold should provide ward save against wounds caused by comet.

Please help me on this one. I found thread about wristbands but conversation was rather about wristbands protecting against war saves.

Arguments from both sides were:
Mine: Casting comet is intended action from anemy, whith intention to harm me and as this occurs from distance its ranged attack.
My friends: Spell says that it iss comet that is summond from space and spells target is fixed point on table not specific unit/character. Wounds are caused by further effect of spell. He raised question that f.ex if he lays some firewall (example of some area effect that possibly harms unit walking into it) and I voluntarily walk into it, should I get ward save then. By my interpretation I shouldn't.
Now when I think some more questions occur... If after walking into area endangered by comet crush should I get ward save, again I think not. Should I get ward save if I voluntarily stayed in such area? This time I think yes, because at the time of casting intention was to harm few units including character wearing wristbands.

In my opinion he raised some important questions. As I read through forums. Most common answer is that wristbands should protect against everything that in the moment of casting endangers character wearing them.

Main problem is that there is no definition of ranged attack in BRB.
Please help on this one

 

[Murphey]

He is just trying to pull a fast one. The wristbands protect against any ranged attack of any kind. That includes war machines, TEMPLATES, and magic missiles. The comet is a template that hits anything with in range of the marker, therefore the wristbands protect against it. Additionally, any attack that takes place outside of melee combat is a ranged attack be it a scream, belch, vomit, war machine, magic, wall, whatever.

The wristband description specifically mentions templates in it's description on pg 86 if he wants proof.
Under the weapon section, weapons are defined to have a have a range of either "combat" for close combat or a described range that it operates within pg.89 of the BRB.

Hope that clears things up for you!

 

[piotr.kacperski]

I support most common opinion, that wristbands give ward save against anything that at moment of action endangers character wearing them. Like waliking into area endangered previously by comet is like summoning it onto your own head...

I don't have BRB book with me, but:
1. What is descprtion of TEMPLATE in BRB? Isn't there only 3 templates small round, big round and flame template?
2. Going further.. .description from weapons section might not be good argument.

 

[Tim]

The item description it says it can, don't see the problem?

 

[Murphey]

A template does not have to be only the 3 plastic ones. A cannon ball bounce, for instance is described as a template the width of a cannon ball and the length of the bounce. The comet would be a template with the radius of the dice rolled. The item, itself states it protects against any type of ranged attack.

Now to clarify if it is a ranged attack or not we look to how the damage is allocated. There are only 3 types of damage allocation.

1. Close combat designated attacks.
2. Ranged shooting allocation. LoS! rolls for having 5 or more rank and file infantry when hit by a template.
3. All models in the unit are required to take a stat test. No LoS! rolls.

In the case of the comet, any unit within range of the marker (ie. under the template) take (2D6+# of counters) hits. Are these allocated as close combat attacks? No! The Comet is not going to challenge a lord to fisticuffs! Does it state in the comet rules that it hits everyone in the unit or that they have to take a statistic test? Nope! That leaves option #2.

You can hedge over the "meaning" of the words all you want, but this is pretty cut and dried.

 

[piotr.kacperski]

Thanks,

You don't have to convince me Thing is, friend of mine tends to

hedge over the "meaning" of the words

(didn't know this expresion). Hopefully last arguments will be enough. If not, I will be back with request for more arguments

 

[Murphey]

I'm glad that I could help.
I have to apologize a bit for my tone at the end. I just don't like the players that compensate for lazy generalship by attempting to squeeze advantages out of a game simply because the rules set doesn't cover every eventuality.
They take a game that is meant to be fun and drain the fun out of it. Sadly, I have many of those at my local game store and have had to arm myself with knowledge to combat them.
Either way, have fun and good hunting!

Edit:

Oh, as to "hedge over the meaning of a word":

It is an expression that means to attempt to cast doubt on a common understanding by taking bits out of context.
It comes from people arguing over the responsibility of trimming the hedge that hangs over a dividing line between two pieces of property. "He has to cut it because the hedge starts on his property." "No! He has to cut just what hangs over the line if he doesn't like it!" Etc. etc. etc.
The real problem is that both are lazy and do not want to cut the damn hedge!

 

[fjhamming]

By the way, you are also allowed to take look out sir tests if you are close enough to a unit of the same type

 

[Tim]

By the way, you are also allowed to take look out sir tests if you are close enough to a unit of the same type

If I recall correctly that's not on the same value as within a unit, e.g. not 1 fails but something else +4? I don't have the book near me but I recall reading something like that.

 

[Murphey]

Yeah a character within 3" of a unit of the same type may take a 4+ LoS! on all shots at them.

 

[eggsPR]

Do the wristbands protect against Direct Damage spells such as Caress of Laneph or Spirit Leech?

 

[Murphey]

Caress of Laneph and Spirit Leech prevent armor saves, but not ward saves. So yes, Wristbands will work. The only spells that I know that the wristbands will not work against are:

Pit of Shades
Final Transmutation
Gateway
Dwellers Below
Purple Sun

 

[Fodderboy]

Unless I'm outdated (entirely possible) DE Bladewind will also work, as it does CC attacks.

 

[eggsPR]

Caress of Laneph and Spirit Leech prevent armor saves, but not ward saves. So yes, Wristbands will work. The only spells that I know that the wristbands will not work against are:

Pit of Shades
Final Transmutation
Gateway
Dwellers Below
Purple Sun

One last question. Do they work against Miscast template hits?

Thanks

 

[Murphey]

Good question! I would say no if he caused the miscast, but yes if the miscast was from someone else (be it ally or enemy).

 

[piotr.kacperski]

I would always say no to miscast, as I it is unintentional, it is even called 'loss of controll'. It is therefore hard to call it an attack.
Only situation that comes to mind, where miscast could be treated like an attack is situation when miscast is passed on to you, like Lizardmen can do with some arcane item (can't remember the name). Why I would call it an attack? Because he (lizard player) intentionally passed harmfull effect onto your character.

 

[eggsPR]

I would always say no to miscast, as I it is unintentional, it is even called 'loss of controll'. It is therefore hard to call it an attack.
Only situation that comes to mind, where miscast could be treated like an attack is situation when miscast is passed on to you, like Lizardmen can do with some arcane item (can't remember the name). Why I would call it an attack? Because he (lizard player) intentionally passed harmfull effect onto your character.

I see, good stuff. I wonder if the hell heart's miscasts would be considered intentional attacks on the wizards. I mean, the hell heart is a ranged attack, as all wizards within it's 'range' are effected, therefore each miscast is the ranged attack.

Self-inflicted miscast - no Wristbands.
Opponent-induced miscast - maybe Wristbands?

I'm far too much of a novice to make this call. Give it a day or so and one of the veterans will weigh-in with offical rules to back it up.