Zombie Horde
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Not the only one. I totally am too. They may be terrible, but its not like I'm paying for them.
I've already made a couple of 10-zombie basis from the corpse cart-base (because I bought several battalions and only wanted the 1 cart)
I've already made a couple of 10-zombie basis from the corpse cart-base (because I bought several battalions and only wanted the 1 cart)
I'm curious as well. I wonder if truly massive zombie units - I mean, 50-100 strong - might be worth something. Obviously, they wont kill anything (Barring quite a bit of luck), but even a Deathstar unit would take 2-4 turns to finish them off, and that's assuming you don't bolster the unit up.
Though painting that many zombies...urgles.
Though painting that many zombies...urgles.
Mmmm, it's one of the things that so many people here dream about. I've certainly dreamt of bringing 300 or so zombies to the table.
About the benefits of a giant unit, lessee...
Zombie Roadblock- 100 Zombies on a flank pretty much denies that flank entirely. It'll take so long to burn through them that it'll be useless to try, and keep that entire flank bottled.
Bullet Shield-- Conga Line in front of your troops to block incoming missile fire (Worked in 7'th, dunno about 8'th...). A Vanhels+ Marching basically says that all incoming missiles not on a hill will have to target the zombies.
Intimidation/Random urges-- It's really, really cool to outnumber your opponent by so many models they stare long and hard. It forces your opponent to make hard choices at deployment and other phases that they would rather not make. It's also fun to see their faces when they make a model count.
"How many zombies?! Holy *%$@ !!"
It's fun, I've proxied 200 zombies in a game before.
About the benefits of a giant unit, lessee...
Zombie Roadblock- 100 Zombies on a flank pretty much denies that flank entirely. It'll take so long to burn through them that it'll be useless to try, and keep that entire flank bottled.
Bullet Shield-- Conga Line in front of your troops to block incoming missile fire (Worked in 7'th, dunno about 8'th...). A Vanhels+ Marching basically says that all incoming missiles not on a hill will have to target the zombies.
Intimidation/Random urges-- It's really, really cool to outnumber your opponent by so many models they stare long and hard. It forces your opponent to make hard choices at deployment and other phases that they would rather not make. It's also fun to see their faces when they make a model count.
"How many zombies?! Holy *%$@ !!"
It's fun, I've proxied 200 zombies in a game before.
ZOMBIES!
I am going to make a 500 point army thats nothing but a Vamp and 100 zombies, but I will raise so much dead in the first 2 turns that it'll swell to 300 zombies, It'll kill everything.
I am going to make a 500 point army thats nothing but a Vamp and 100 zombies, but I will raise so much dead in the first 2 turns that it'll swell to 300 zombies, It'll kill everything.
TheZombieSquig
Ghoul
I'm looking forward to using a zombie horde too.
I'm also looking at ways to surprise my opponent by buffing them up a bit. I'm thinking Helm of Commandment and the Beasts spell that gives +1 S & T. Obviously it won't make them rock hard, but it may give them an unexpected edge over other hordes.
On a side note, the lore of Beasts could be awesome for a thematic bestial vampire army, with a horde of T5 ghouls and a 'strigoi' vampire with +3A! Not to mention the S10 bolt thrower spell.
I'm also looking at ways to surprise my opponent by buffing them up a bit. I'm thinking Helm of Commandment and the Beasts spell that gives +1 S & T. Obviously it won't make them rock hard, but it may give them an unexpected edge over other hordes.
On a side note, the lore of Beasts could be awesome for a thematic bestial vampire army, with a horde of T5 ghouls and a 'strigoi' vampire with +3A! Not to mention the S10 bolt thrower spell.
Why? Zombies actually got much, much worse because of enemy Stepping Up, plus outnumbering is gone. And lets not even mention Horde formation. The only positive thing is that in 8th ed they can reform and move 4", which means you can have a nice conga line of 30+ Zombies one model wide to stick a nasty enemy unit on. This is the only way Zombies are ever going to last in a fight.
Helm of Commandment is usually needed elsewhere to actually win fights, rather than to prolong the inevitable.
Helm of Commandment is usually needed elsewhere to actually win fights, rather than to prolong the inevitable.
Alexos said:
Umm, epic fail? The Vampire can't join zombie units. Have you read the "Newly Dead" rule? If I was your enemy, I would just snipe the Vampire. Put all my resources into killing him, then the armie's done. Leadership 2 means a lot of crumbling.
I would only ever use zombies because people think they are better than they actally are, or to get in a flank charge to deny enemy ranks, or to catch the enemy as the flee by raising a unit behind the unit you're going to break. People see big blocks of infantry, and go "sh*t" and put everything into killing them. That's the only reason I would take zombies.
Fielding them ten-wide just means the enemy can shoot them more and they get more in the way.
EDIT: Also, fielding them one model-wide, as said by NIB, sounds very nasty. It means only one enemy model (2 if they push it) can fight, and also any models behind them, depending on spears etc. That way, you might actually survive. Although you'd get no rank bonus!
Can't say the idea really excites me to be honest. It just got a whole load easier to chew through the zombies, even basic enemy core troops, especially if they have spears with go through them faster than we can support them.
Disciple of Nagash said:
Hordes of undead people don't excite you? Remember that it doesn't specify whether the zombies are male or female. There's blatently some model-zombies.
Would it be necrophilia?
erv:
Zombies will die faster than we can ressurect them. Striking in multiple ranks was the final nail in the coffin for them, these zombies aren't getting back up. A shame really but I don't see any use for them. They will only find a way into my themed/just for fun-lists but they certainly do not belong in a competitive list. That said, if someone would prove me wrong I'd be glad.
Mioum
Crypt Horror
I'm kinda glad my Lahmian theme prevent me from using Zombies. They feel like they are overcosted by 2 or 3pts now! For what they can bring to the fight (aka nothing), I can't see me paying more that goblin or skaven slave price for them.
I wonder how often the rule 'Shambling Horde' will be used now. Looks like Zombies will dies too quickly, even in multiple combat as they are a good source of free CR for the enemy.
I wonder how often the rule 'Shambling Horde' will be used now. Looks like Zombies will dies too quickly, even in multiple combat as they are a good source of free CR for the enemy.
*Wishfully imagines the VC Errata would reduce the cost of a Zombie from 4pts to 1-2pts to reflect their utter uselessness...*
Who wouldn't take 100 Zombies for 100pts?
Who wouldn't take 100 Zombies for 100pts?
Danceman said:
I'm not sure how all this free-reform works, but putting the zombies in a conga line basically negates the number of attacks the enemy can make per turn. Put them one model wide, right on the edge of the enemy, and then only one model (perhaps two if they squeeze) and any models behind them can attack. (Depending on various spears/horde etc.) The only problem there is with no ranks CR will utterly rape you.
Just my £0.02.
Loempiaketzer
Crypt Horror
well dont go so hard on those zombos!
I think they are still pretty cool and bad ass.
why? (non game terms)
GREAT conversion - theme abilities with these guys (still needing to make a thriller dance act by MJackson for a unit, that should be the funkiest dance-dance-death'o'lution unit ever!)
In game terms,
Redirecting! - summon some in front of your enemy facing 45degrees angle. works fine everytime!
speedbump - 20 minimum deployed... well, were all doing some mathhammer.. and taking cav + warbanners and such. BUT! there is the odd chance of MISSING on them/not taking that much casualties! and otherwise, it takes the cav 1 turn longer to plow trough them. You could take hounds/skellies/ghouls. However, they get shot to pieces REAL quick if deployed in low numbers. Nobodys going to shoot at zombies (whoever is right in his mind)
THAT is in my perspective a GREAT advantage for them. they could move over the battlefield, without being noticed by enemy fire/magic.
Arent those 2 some decent pro's to take em?
horde-play would be very difficult i agree. but ruling them out as complete useless... no way!
I say,
Rob Zombie for president!
*edit, read his own post, and actually its only 1 pro to take em in your list.. the other is just a spell... however, zombies rock, i think every VC player must have at least 40!*
I think they are still pretty cool and bad ass.
why? (non game terms)
GREAT conversion - theme abilities with these guys (still needing to make a thriller dance act by MJackson for a unit, that should be the funkiest dance-dance-death'o'lution unit ever!)
In game terms,
Redirecting! - summon some in front of your enemy facing 45degrees angle. works fine everytime!
speedbump - 20 minimum deployed... well, were all doing some mathhammer.. and taking cav + warbanners and such. BUT! there is the odd chance of MISSING on them/not taking that much casualties! and otherwise, it takes the cav 1 turn longer to plow trough them. You could take hounds/skellies/ghouls. However, they get shot to pieces REAL quick if deployed in low numbers. Nobodys going to shoot at zombies (whoever is right in his mind
) THAT is in my perspective a GREAT advantage for them. they could move over the battlefield, without being noticed by enemy fire/magic.
Arent those 2 some decent pro's to take em?
horde-play would be very difficult i agree. but ruling them out as complete useless... no way!
I say,
Rob Zombie for president! *edit, read his own post, and actually its only 1 pro to take em in your list.. the other is just a spell... however, zombies rock, i think every VC player must have at least 40!
*
Loempiaketzer said:*edit, read his own post, and actually its only 1 pro to take em in your list.. the other is just a spell... however, zombies rock, i think every VC player must have at least 40!
No, you said re-directing and speedbump. 2 pros.
After all, there are three kinds of mathematicians in this world. Those who can count and those who can't.
Loempiaketzer
Crypt Horror
well,... redirecting would be more awesome if you can pop-up some zombies with a nifty raise dead spell. (that would work better/more suprising)
so, counting on that, there is no need to take zombies in your original list, you could also just sommon them.
but i guess.. not depending on magic, you could still use them to redirect.
also, on the quote of someone here 'helm of command is often used somewhere else to win a battle'
most of the time, i dont get into CC with my whole army. so... a flying vamped HoC dude could buff zombies on turn a and then flyover to support main lines in turn B.
im just saying,... if buffed, for what reason ever... the sheer numbers of zombies getting +1T or good WS can really buff the @#$% out of them..... take a dude with the same stats and for instance WS7 instead of the 1 they got... a dude would costs about? 7 to 8 points? thats doubling your unit-point-value for one turn.. it might not be much.. but its better than nothing
zombies go a long dead way!!
so, counting on that, there is no need to take zombies in your original list, you could also just sommon them.
but i guess.. not depending on magic, you could still use them to redirect.
also, on the quote of someone here 'helm of command is often used somewhere else to win a battle'
most of the time, i dont get into CC with my whole army. so... a flying vamped HoC dude could buff zombies on turn a and then flyover to support main lines in turn B.
im just saying,... if buffed, for what reason ever... the sheer numbers of zombies getting +1T or good WS can really buff the @#$% out of them..... take a dude with the same stats and for instance WS7 instead of the 1 they got... a dude would costs about? 7 to 8 points? thats doubling your unit-point-value for one turn.. it might not be much.. but its better than nothing
zombies go a long dead way!!
Re-directing a heavy charge is worth it's weight in gold. I'd take/ raise at least one unit of zombies for that every game; I used to play a Night Goblin army in 7th that would use 10 man Orc units for redirecting enemies away from the 40 strong gobbo units, who would be able to flank charge the next turn, lol. Having the re-directing unit cost very little points is one of the key things, so you won't mind throwing them away.
I don't know if people would avoid shooting them though- they're more likely to kill them, at T2, which would mean more of your magic went back into topping them back up again, than into VHDM, for example.
I think they're a fluff unit, and although I'll buy some at some point (havn't got round to collecting new VC models after I played them as a kid, then threw them out, about 10 years back) I won't be taking them in the main list unless I need to fill some of the core requirement with the last few points; I'd rather raise them excessively for the points mentioned above, as, and when, I need them.
I don't know if people would avoid shooting them though- they're more likely to kill them, at T2, which would mean more of your magic went back into topping them back up again, than into VHDM, for example.
I think they're a fluff unit, and although I'll buy some at some point (havn't got round to collecting new VC models after I played them as a kid, then threw them out, about 10 years back) I won't be taking them in the main list unless I need to fill some of the core requirement with the last few points; I'd rather raise them excessively for the points mentioned above, as, and when, I need them.
I don't know, if the enemy restrains their overrun, they can just reform for free after wiping out your line and go right on their merry way in the next turn.
I've seen six ogres and a bruiser wipe out nearly fifty zombies in a single frontal charge. I doubt even 100 would be able to hold a flank against a serious offensive infantry advance for more then a turn or two, and you wouldn't want to bring anything into the fight to help them due to how badly you'd be losing any combats that include them.
There's some decent buffs in the new lores that you can put on them, but I can't imagine that it would actually be worth the effort.
I've seen six ogres and a bruiser wipe out nearly fifty zombies in a single frontal charge. I doubt even 100 would be able to hold a flank against a serious offensive infantry advance for more then a turn or two, and you wouldn't want to bring anything into the fight to help them due to how badly you'd be losing any combats that include them.
There's some decent buffs in the new lores that you can put on them, but I can't imagine that it would actually be worth the effort.
TheZombieSquig
Ghoul
I'm still going to enjoy raising zombie walls to annoy my wood elf friend, but I guess his guerilla tactics are invalid now anyway.
Loempiaketzer
Crypt Horror
6 bulls + bruiser = a little less than 400points.
thats quite a lot.
so i guess theyre a little out of place.
good to know that they can be wiped out in 1 turn by such a "small" unit.
Its always difficult to take 'conclusions' on forums about a unit being good/bad/godlike and what not. i think, zombies are our friends. we should never abandon those lovely newly dead. They might not be awesome, they might not kill. SO! they can only amaze us then they get a single kill on a unit you dont expect/win a combat they couldnt win
And! by negating them, it might just turn the dice gods against us!
greetings
thats quite a lot.
so i guess theyre a little out of place.
good to know that they can be wiped out in 1 turn by such a "small" unit.
Its always difficult to take 'conclusions' on forums about a unit being good/bad/godlike and what not. i think, zombies are our friends. we should never abandon those lovely newly dead. They might not be awesome, they might not kill. SO! they can only amaze us then they get a single kill on a unit you dont expect/win a combat they couldnt win
And! by negating them, it might just turn the dice gods against us!
greetings
witchking1980
Black Knight
I have 40 zombies plus another 20(not assembled yet). I will certainly test the zombies making a unit of 40 with banner+musician. I will see if I can ION more than the casualties and preserve this wall of flesh. If I am disappointed, then I will get another unit of 30 skeletons plus one unit of Ghouls. The thing I have spent enough time to paint my 40 zombies and it would be sad to keep them in their box forever :frown:
I think I'm going to make it a point from now on (In 8'th of course) to never leave home without a unit of 20 Zombies.
Yes yes, it may not fit a Lahmian theme, but I'm going to bring the dead suckers along anyways. For 80 points and with such raisability why not?
They shall grow into a horde! Muahaha!
That's my opinion on the Zombie horde. Raise em, don't pay.
Yes yes, it may not fit a Lahmian theme, but I'm going to bring the dead suckers along anyways. For 80 points and with such raisability why not?
They shall grow into a horde! Muahaha!
That's my opinion on the Zombie horde. Raise em, don't pay.
Hehe I'm Still going to be using units of 200, still never being able to wheel them around anything, still tar-pitting things til the end of turn 6
Loempiaketzer
Crypt Horror
and i still got love for the streets!
im representing for the gangsters all acros the world
STILL
taking my time to perfect the beat, and i still got love for the AAAARRRGHHHHHHHHHH zombies!!!!!! i should convert dead-celeberties! MJ dancing squad from thriller is driving me wild atm
zombies own
im representing for the gangsters all acros the world
STILL
taking my time to perfect the beat, and i still got love for the AAAARRRGHHHHHHHHHH zombies!!!!!!
i should convert dead-celeberties! MJ dancing squad from thriller is driving me wild atm zombies own