Zombie Std Bearer Worth It?

[Patrunkenphat7]

Is the Zombie standard bearer worth taking?

25 (+5) victory points for your opponent if the unit is destroyed vs. 1 extra combat res. Usually when my Zombies lose, they get destroyed. Their purpose is not to win a combat. I am not running standard bearers in my Zombie units anymore because it just feeds the opponent victory points. Thoughts?

 

[Zhatan]

I take a standard bearer in zombie units if I plan to use them as a bunker that won't see combat just to get an extra banner for Blood and Glory. If the zombie unit is meant to be a tarpit or speedbump then I wouldn't bother. It's unlikely to make a difference.

 

[NoisyAssassin]

If you play scenarios that use fortitude or care about banners (Blood and Glory from the BrB, lots of custom tournament scenarios in a lot of regions) then I consider the banners of them mandatory. We don't have a lot of Fortitude points, so any we can get are well worth it. If you don't play those scenarios then I wouldn't bother.

 

[Von Calyptra]

The banner costs less than two zombies, and will save you one zombie per round of combat. After two rounds of combat it will have paid for itself. I guess it's a question of if your zombies are intended to be a tarpit, or a speed-bump/redirector.

 

[Kingside_Bishop]

I always bring banners, because in my club, we sometimes roll random mission, and without them you pretty much autolose blood and glory. That, and our slow grow campaign has a lot of banner-based scenarios that come up fairly often. So it's an easy decision for me.

But looking at it outside of the meta, just from a crunch perspective, I'd say they're probably worth it. I like to throw my zombie units against chariots, cavalry, etc. that have relatively little static CR -- sometimes the zombies actually win, and can chase something sweet off the table! So for that reason, I usually bring the banner. Granted getting your zombies in with such a unit is a victory in itself, and they would likely just tarpit them the whole game even if losing (still a win), but if you can improve their odds of running them off the table for a few points, why not?

Plus, lezbehonest, they look friggin' sweet. That's the real reason I run them.

 

[Aedin]

The banner costs less than two zombies, and will save you one zombie per round of combat. After two rounds of combat it will have paid for itself. I guess it's a question of if your zombies are intended to be a tarpit, or a speed-bump/redirector.

Actually, if you loose the banner you give up an additional 25 points to victory point calculation. So for it to pay for itself you need to save 9 zombies.

However, I have won a few key battles by charging zombies with banners in the flank of an existing combat. Just make damn sure your going to break them or else the cost may be too high.

EDIT: Forgot to mention... Claiming VP conditions or objective in tournament scenarios because these usually require an objective claiming unit which must include a command model.

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

The banner costs less than two zombies, and will save you one zombie per round of combat. After two rounds of combat it will have paid for itself. I guess it's a question of if your zombies are intended to be a tarpit, or a speed-bump/redirector.

Actually, if you loose the banner you give up an additional 25 points to victory point calculation. So for it to pay for itself you need to save 9 zombies.

However, I have won a few key battles by charging zombies with banners in the flank of an existing combat. Just make damn sure your going to break them or else the cost may be too high.

EDIT: Forgot to mention... Claiming VP conditions or objective in tournament scenarios because these usually require an objective claiming unit which must include a command model.

^In your last example, this can be a Musician, correct?

You pretty much made the point with both of your arguments. It's weighing the potential victory point loss with the potential that the standard wins combat for you.

In response to people using the Blood and Glory example, do you think your unit of Zombies will make a difference in the game? They are just soooo easy to destroy if that's your opponent's goal.

 

[Burnanation]

If I'm in need of banners, I take skellies.

I never take a banner with zombies.

 

[Blutsauger]

Is the Zombie standard bearer worth taking?

25 (+5) victory points for your opponent if the unit is destroyed vs. 1 extra combat res. Usually when my Zombies lose, they get destroyed. Their purpose is not to win a combat. I am not running standard bearers in my Zombie units anymore because it just feeds the opponent victory points. Thoughts?

Blood and Glory. And yes, they're easy to destroy, but the fact is your opponent HAS to commit to destroying that 65 point unit, which is still 20+ models strong. He can't just send some light cavalry to clean them up. A block of infantry, even T3 infantry with no saves, requires some serious tools to get rid of it and while they're distracted trying to clean up your zombie blocks, your heavy hitters are romping through their lines, cleaning up their banners.

 

[Scalenex]

Is the Zombie standard bearer worth taking?

25 (+5) victory points for your opponent if the unit is destroyed vs. 1 extra combat res. Usually when my Zombies lose, they get destroyed. Their purpose is not to win a combat. I am not running standard bearers in my Zombie units anymore because it just feeds the opponent victory points. Thoughts?

Blood and Glory. And yes, they're easy to destroy, but the fact is your opponent HAS to commit to destroying that 65 point unit, which is still 20+ models strong. He can't just send some light cavalry to clean them up. A block of infantry, even T3 infantry with no saves, requires some serious tools to get rid of it and while they're distracted trying to clean up your zombie blocks, your heavy hitters are romping through their lines, cleaning up their banners.

I'm with Blutsauger, not every unit should be looked at solely through the lens of "will it kill it earn it's points back?" You need to look at the overall battle. The zombies will probably die either way but if you can buy an extra round of survival that can be very beneficial to you.

 

[Ripper]

You should always always always be rolling for scenario, it makes the game so much more tactical. There's a 1 in 6 chance you will get blood and glory, so you just need to look at your list. What is your fortitude? You may find that paying the few points for a couple of banners on your zombie units makes a big big difference.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Blood and Glory. And yes, they're easy to destroy, but the fact is your opponent HAS to commit to destroying that 65 point unit, which is still 20+ models strong. He can't just send some light cavalry to clean them up. A block of infantry, even T3 infantry with no saves, requires some serious tools to get rid of it and while they're distracted trying to clean up your zombie blocks, your heavy hitters are romping through their lines, cleaning up their banners.

I'm with Blutsauger, not every unit should be looked at solely through the lens of "will it kill it earn it's points back?" You need to look at the overall battle. The zombies will probably die either way but if you can buy an extra round of survival that can be very beneficial to you.

The sample size with my vampires isn't very large, but including the three dozen games I've played with my Tomb Kings the number of times I've had a unit hanging on by 1-2 skeletons is substantial, and sometimes 1-2 skeletons left is all you need. Definitely with zombies it's all you need.

If you're using little speedbump units I'd say leave off the banners, since they make the unit give up 30 more victory points. If the unit is big enough to last a couple turns then the banner may well be worthwhile.

Not to mention that all "points" aren't created equal. Say a standard saves you 5 zombies before the unit pops. That's 15 fewer points that you had to spend on zombies to get the same effect. Yeah you "gave up" 30 points to do it, but how often would you be willing to spend 2 points of core for 1 more point of rare here or there.

 

[Emicrania]

Regardless my feticism for zeds (many saw me cheer more for a zombie killing one elite than a GG unit wipe out elite units) the banner is a must in the bunkers and a mustNOT in the tarpit.

 

[snyggejygge]

When I play we roll scenario, so I always take a banner for those blood and glory scenarios.

 

[der vued]

When looking at ETC lists you can find all kinds of upgrade selection (nothing, only muso, only standard, both). And all those list are very good. The right selection highly depends on how you want to use them.

As a rule of thump I agree with Emicrania: Bunker - yes, Tarpit - no.