Zombies are eating my keyboard...

[Umbreus]

Now I have hopefully grabbed some of your attention with my somewhat random thread subject, hey!

I do apologise for aforementioned title, but it was either that or 'I'm a noob, help', which would neither do my self esteem, nor my forum rep, any good whatsoever. So, here's where I'm at:

Today, I purchased a VC army book, as much for inspiration for my art as for an army, but hey-ho. Okay, I'm hooked. However, I'm all to aware, from personal experience, that rushing in and buying is not wise. But, and it's quite a big but, being new to conventional Warhammer, I have no idea where to start. I'd like to have some idea of an army list before making purchases, so I can reach that level and stop, and have a play around (my mates all left gaming about the same time I did, so my only source will be the GW store) to get a feel for the game. However, as a newb, I have no idea what the normal army sizes are! I know in 40k it was often 500, 1k, 1.5k etc, so ideally I'd like some idea about the smallest common size so I can work to that first.

Thanks in advance
Umbreus

 

[The Dead of Night]

Hard to say really. I typically play at 2.5k, most tourneys seem to be around 2250-2600 with the occasional 3k ('ard boys). For VC 2k is probably a practical minimum due to Vampires being expensive, though 1.5 is plausible.

Best bet is to go to the club or store you plan to play at and see what they do.

 

[Vreith]

Yes very true, your local store will give you an idea, i am lucky to have the store manager a vampire player who could help me out extensively.

with vamps it's realy just a few things you got to get under your belt/decide on, i was silly & bought both. but the biggest decision is: Blood knights or Black coaches & Varghulfs, your rare is where your hitting is.
your core should be pretty simple, Ghouls, horde or not, ghouls you want, that being said you want 20-30 skellies for that option of skelly bunker (however if gone with blood knights you can avoid this as your man chars should be with the BK) you proabably never need more than 1 corpse cart, if at all.

all this being said your only real option for special is grave gaurd, & they in 8th, so worth it, Great weapons or not, but preferable to the great weapons.

with skellies spears or survivability, it's up to you but i went with spears.

Spirit hosts, you will need to probably get 2x bases just for the spell: winds of undead

zombies, well unless your entire army is zombies don't bother other than picking up 40-60 for raising during game, they should never fill up your core spots.


all that breaks down to:
2000-2500 odd points
1x box of Dragon princes (High elf unit that can easily be modded for Blood knights)
1x Battleforce, good value, as you would get 10 ghouls which you will need. 20 zombies to raise & 20 skellies for that bunker.
2x Spirit host blisters (for winds of undeath)
3-6x boxes of ghouls, after battleforce 40-70 ghouls
2-3x boxes of grave guard (a must have)
1-2x Varghulf
1x Black Coach

this should cover all bases for those point values, for lower point values, decrease ghouls varghulf's & grave guard respectively, as you will want to making core as small points value as possible.
im sure you can figure out lords for your self

just a guide from what ive done & ive seen

 

[uglybug]

unit fillers!!
buy some 40x40 basses and some 20x80 bases that you can make a small scene with 2 or 3 guys even though it counts as 4.
for spirit hosts instead of buying the metal vc ones you can convert a box of plastic from a different army and paint them as suggested by some in the art forum. any extras can be made into zombies too or as victems in the unit fillers. Also you can use tombstones made from clay or greenstuff.
and check for other ideas in the art forum. you may find using the extra arms and heads that come in a box could be mounted on a base as a creature coming out of the ground.

 

[Onikaigo]

Bah, am I the only person on these forums that absolutely LOVES skeletons? I don't run ghouls. Like, ever. It's my playstyle, really.

Skeletons are created to hold the line, and to win through attrition/Support units. I make my Vampires into support units. Vampires have access to Forbidden Lore, which gives them bazillions of options for spells, so Skeletons are still and will always be my core of choice.

To start off your army, I'd recommend a Vampire model you can really relate to and -want- to paint up. Then grab whichever Core unit you like most (Ghouls or Skeletons) to about 20-30, then fill out a special or two and you've got an army.

My first purchases were Two battalion Boxes, which gave me 40 Skeletons, 20 Ghouls, two Corpse Carts and Dogs. It was easily enough for 1500 point games when I included Vampire characters, and it only cost me 160 dollars online. Including my characters.

So, my advice:
1) Pick your character. Vampire, of course, and model him however you see fit.
2)Get core. Lots of it. Zombies are also a near necessity, since you raise them so easily.
3)Pick up a special unit. Bats, Grave Guard, Black Knights....take your pick.

You have an Army, and can then practice and proxy whatever else you need to to figure out what you want to buy after.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

OK.
Your typical games in a GW store will be from 500 points to 2k

You need a core choice so I always suggest ghouls as they kill nearly everything but what you need to start is a battalion box set, about 6 box's of ghouls or skellies, a black coach would not hurt, 2 box's of GG and some characters.
That should see you off to a good start, a basic army but it will give you a feel for VC.

BK are not to powerful these days so I suggest fielding Black Knights and converting using empire cav and GG models.

When you get the general feel forn your army start to prob into other units, getting to much to soon will lead you to a premature destruction as you go for whats awesome before you know how best to use them.

 

[Umbreus]

Alright, thanks for ALL the feedback. Obviously, tis all a bit much, so I can't take all your advice straight off, but I'll work on it! As £££ is a MAJOR factor in the growth of my undead horde, I'm going to try and build it in 500 point blocks or so. (Christmas is going to be my saviour for this, along with any moneys I make with whatever work I can get my hands on!)

My ideal first 500 point (ish) block will be (depending on responses)

Vampire
Sceptre de Noirot
Nightshroud
Forbidden Lore
Lord of the Dead
=195

Skeleton warriors X10
Musician
Champion
Standard
=100

Skeleton warriors X10
Musician
Champion
Standard
=100

Grave Guard X8
Musician
Seneschal
Standard
=126


=521​

First purchase is going to be the WHOPPING £45 :O rulebook. I remember the old £30 ones...

As well as that, I'll look to get:
1x VC battalion
1x Box of Grave Guard
1x Box of Skellies

I already have a box of zombies, and I really need to find a model I can work on for my Vampire, but that'll take longer. Overall opinions?

Umbreus

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Its good to see you woking on your list.
The above vampire can not be used however.

In 500 point you can only have 25% of your points on hero's, lords. core etc.
Anyway he can not cost more than 125.
I would just take him with summon ghouls myself and call it a day.

 

[Umbreus]

There's always one thing that gets me! Thanks for pointing that one out, back to the drawing board. Though, tbh, it would help somewhat, allowing me to have more points elsewhere.

Hm, if I were to go with the Vamp with Summon Ghouls, I might swap the skeletons for ghouls. Having said that, I could go with Lord of the Dead and stick with the skellies. I'm torn, since I love the look of skellies but have not experienced ghouls.

*lightbulb*
have two possible list and play out!

List one:

Vampire
Summon Ghouls
=115

Skeleton warriors X10
Musician
Champion
Standard
=100

Ghouls X10
Ghast
=88

Ghouls X10
Ghast
=88

Grave Guard X7
Musician
Seneschal
=102

=493

List two:

Vampire
Lord of the Dead
=115

Skeleton warriors X10
Musician
Champion
Standard
=100

Skeleton warriors X10
Musician
Champion
Standard
=100

Ghouls X10
Ghast
=88

Grave Guard X6
Musician
Seneschal
=90

=493

CC is welcomed, as these are my first real WHFB, let alone VC, lists. And in addition, sorry for the format being not exactly like the in-built army builder one, but this is a later post and I don't know how to use it later

Umbreus

 

[Grish]

500 pts with Vampires is tough to play. We're not mobile, we have no shooting. If you come across a mobile opponent, you wont' even be able to engage them. It also sort of breaks down. You will still have 7 PD for winds of magic.

With the new restrictions, Vampires can barely play at this level. If you are going to go down this path, I would take something like:

Vampire - Summon Ghouls, Talisman of Lycni = 125 I believe
10 Ghouls + Ghast = 88
10 Ghouls + Ghast = 88
15 Grave Guard w. Great Weapons (no upgrades, not even a banner) = 195
=496

And that's about it. Your vampire spends each round casting IoN on the ghouls, and you just engage in combat and grind...
Talisman would allow him some monster charges on lone mages or weak groups. He still has a great I, and 3 attacks at S5. He just can't take a hit well.

Small units like 6 Grave Guard will die to just about anything. I wouldn't bother with grave guard unless you take at least 10 (and I wouldn't be comfortable with only 10).

 

[Graf Orlok]

What was decided about that "no vampires" list?

At 500pts a Wight King or Necromancer general could be viable.

 

[The Dead of Night]

Illegal as per the new FAQ.

 

[Graf Orlok]

Then I'm afraid VC will not be a fun army to play under 1000 points, let alone 500. :grave:

EDIT: well, I actually think no army can be fun at that points, but hey... especially us!

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Its easy to field a 500 and 1000 point vamp army under the new rules and because of the magic we kill everything at those points.

 

[Graf Orlok]

Didn't say it was hard, I just said it wouldn't be a nice game to play

I'm beginning to think (with all the REMOVE THAT UNIT!!! spells that are around) that WHFB is designed to be played in big games, probably around 3000 points.

You lose a 450pts unit in a 2000pts game? OUCH! In a 3000pts game you can manage it. And the bigger the game, the lesser effective are those 2D6 Winds of Magic dice.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Thats true but I just think that gateway, pit of shades and purpe sun are over the top.
To many people try and spam them.

 

[Graf Orlok]

Don't forget dwellers from below, final transmutation or the dreaded 13th... :swear:

At 2000 points they are game-ending spells.

At 3000 they are a bit more manageable.

 

[Umbreus]

Haha, sounds as if I have MUCH to learn! Okay, I did as Vreith suggested, and headed down to my local GW store (my bus stops less than 5m away from the door, handy eh?) After having an interesting discussion about GW's rather obtuse age restrictions on products, I got onto the topic of points and they suggested aiming at about 750 points as the bottom value. So my new aim will be to start writing a 750 point list (which I shall hopefully post that up at some point tonight.

On a more positive note, I've started on my first unit! (I had some Zombies kicking around so are working on them) and I've been invited to go back to the store for a 1-to-1 session learning the basics of WHFB at some point soon. So fingers crossed, I'm heading in the right direction XD

Umbreus

 

[Umbreus]

Okay, my apologies for the double post, but my mind has actually given in completly and the concept of editing my previous post to make it make sense actually terrifies me so much I'm shaking in my seat. Okay, worked on a basic 750 points list, which will be edited in time, leaning heavily Grish's list and what I've read about Skeletons Vs Ghouls and Varghulfs, here goes:

Vampire
Summon Ghouls
=115

Ghouls x10
Ghast
=88

Ghouls x10
Ghast
=88

Ghouls x10
Ghast
=88

Grave Guard x15
GW
=195

Varghulf
=175

=749

Opinions?

Umbreus

p.s To any admins reading, this thread has shifted onto a topic best suited elsewhere. I'd like to both apologise and suggest a move?

 

[Grish]

At 750 pts, you can spend up to 185 pts on your vampire, unlike the mere 125 at 500 pts. I would definitely put some protection on him, like Flayed Hauberk. At 500 pts, it was a question of protection or getting Summon Ghouls. Summon Ghouls is so strong at low level of points, because you'll still have around 7PD each round with Winds of Magic. Unlikely your opponent will have a +2 to dispel, so you should get through 2 a round at least. You will have a +2 to cast, and they will have a very tough time stopping your magic phase.

Without protection, an enemy could suicide against your vamp and start your entire army crumbling. That was a purpose of the Talisman as well; if you had to, you could run for it.

You can only keep 1 or 2 units of ghouls topped out using IoN; 3 is too much. I would take one unit of ghouls to strengthen the other two.

Also, a scenario in the book requires having a Standard almost; Blood and Glory. So I would take a standard on your Grave Guard. Also makes them look better.

But yeah, those are good units and models to start with. A solid core you won't be disappointed with. You can play around with lists later on.

I would personally be tempted to field a vampire like so:

Vampire, Summon Ghouls, Dark Acolyte, Flayed Hauberk, Biting Blade. 5pts for magical attacks and -1 AS is cheap and good. Dark Acolyte will give you +1 to cast / dispel, and added chance of gaining a useful spell. 175 pts is a good amount of points to play with and you can field your Vampire as you see fit. Figure out what you like playing with. You could go with a Fighter with Infinite Hatred, Flayed Hauberk, Sword of Might and summon ghouls, or some other combination; up to you. Don't fall into the habit of agreeing with whatever people on the internet say. Play around, see what you're doing wrong. The only thing I personally stress is when you buy something, really think about what you want to do with it. People waste a lot of points buying stuff for characters usually that doesn't help their list. An example I've seen is a list that has Forbidden Lore and 3 bound spells (book of arkhan, staff of damnation, corpse cart). There just wouldn't be enough powerdice in a list to make use of all that, and it'd go to waste... if you scrimp and save all y our points, it can really add up and be used for something useful.