Zombies being feared?

[Cobra7]

I was listening to the Bad Dice podcast, and one thing they noted was there is no more psycology.

That means we are affected by terror now (unless we cause terror ourselves).

Another thing to note is with the toning down of fear, our zombies and skellies are over priced point wise. The reason one of the worst figures in the game was 4 points was because of fear, now it's only worth 2, maybe 3 at best.

Our Black Coach doesn't get power-ups now since Wizards no longer generate power dice.

I'm not trying to be a nay-sayer here, just pointing out that I hope the FAQ's that come out after 8th fix all this stuff right away. Pretty much we almost need a new rule book asap.

:grave: 7th Ed

Edit: I think this means we also need to take panic tests now...

 

[Azakael]

I was listening to the Bad Dice podcast, and one thing they noted was there is no more psycology.

There is a special rule called, "Immune to Psychology" That rule says that models with that rule are not affected by Fear, Terror or Panic.

On top of that, the Break test rule in the book still applies. Though I suspect in the future, we'll be "Unbreakable" and "Unstable"

Another thing to note is with the toning down of fear, our zombies and skellies are over priced point wise. The reason one of the worst figures in the game was 4 points was because of fear, now it's only worth 2, maybe 3 at best.

So we trade the auto-break effect of fear for Fear being tested for every turn and dropping their WS to 1 as well as the ability to fight with two (or more) ranks, as well as actually being able to strike back when we lose models? I'll still pay 4 and 8 points.

Our Black Coach doesn't get power-ups now since Wizards no longer generate power dice.

Right, but there is still a power dice pool to roll, and we don't need to have wizards within 6" to boost it. The dice that wizards channel go directly into the power pool.

I'm not trying to be a nay-sayer here, just pointing out that I hope the FAQ's that come out after 8th fix all this stuff right away. Pretty much we almost need a new rule book asap.

Not in the least. Our book is still good, our book still works *mostly* the same. If any army needs a new rule book asap, it's the Tomb Kings.

Edit: I think this means we also need to take panic tests now...

Thankfully. No. We're good.

 

[TheZombieSquig]

2 point zombies would be great - I'd field five units of 50 in 2k and have tonnes more models for extra raising. The wall of flesh.

 

[Cobra7]

I was listening to the Bad Dice podcast, and one thing they noted was there is no more psycology.

There is a special rule called, "Immune to Psychology" That rule says that models with that rule are not affected by Fear, Terror or Panic.

On top of that, the Break test rule in the book still applies. Though I suspect in the future, we'll be "Unbreakable" and "Unstable"

So "immune to Psycology" is a rule in the 8th edition? I haven't seen the book, just going by what I heard from some people who were going over it.

I still think fear is much more tame now. Before we just had to outnumber and win combat, now we'll need to count on our WS 2/1 S 3/2 to whiddle down the opposing troops.

Sure, may get WS1, it will help out, but just not as good as it was. Thus, I do think the point values of our troops should go down.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

So we trade the auto-break effect of fear for Fear being tested for every turn and dropping their WS to 1 as well as the ability to fight with two (or more) ranks, as well as actually being able to strike back when we lose models? I'll still pay 4 and 8 points.

I've seen this around the place, what do you mean? A dead model is, well ... dead. (Ok, UNdead doesn't count. I mean properly dead.) If we strike in I order, then our mighty I1 won't do much.

The enemy only has to kill 5 zombies and our fighting rank is gone. No attacks at all!

 

[Big D Von Carstein]

No such thing a killing the "fighting rank" now. If you have a unit of 40 zombies and 9 die, 9 more step up from the back ranks to fill the hole and you still fight with a full 2 ranks. Only if you do not have enough models left in the unit to replace the dead in the fighting ranks do you lose attacks.

Having read the book today and had a long discussion over it with a GW store manager and a couple of others in the store, the one thing that has been badly nerfed are large gribblies of all kinds. No longer break ranks, no terror bomb, unable to break large units on thier own and most enemies they face in cc will be steadfast (stubbon) against them regardless of the number of casualties caused (for the first 2-3 rounds at least anyway), bogging them down and giving plenty of time for something hitty to take them in the flank and do real damage.

 

[Azakael]

No such thing a killing the "fighting rank" now. If you have a unit of 40 zombies and 9 die, 9 more step up from the back ranks to fill the hole and you still fight with a full 2 ranks. Only if you do not have enough models left in the unit to replace the dead in the fighting ranks do you lose attacks.

And if you have 40 zombies, you might want to consider ranking them 10 wide, that way you benefit from Horde and get a total of three ranks attacking and not just two.

(Plus ranking wider than you are deep just looks cooler...)

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Ah, that's good and bad. Bad because our vampires can't Red Fury the front ranks stopping enemy attacks. Good because zombies may finally get to attack.

 

[Cobra7]

I looked over the rule book for the first time, "Immune to Psycology" is a rule that acts like it did before.

So no, we are not a broken Army

My argument of reducing the point costs of our troops still stands however.

Again, I don't think it should be much of a drop, after all fear is still useful.

Zombies 2/3 points
Skellies 6 points
Black Knights 20 points
Blood Knights 45 points? (I have never used them yet, but I would guess they used to get a lot of kills because of the old fear)
Vamp lord: 190
Vamp 90
GG 10/11 (if not still 12, they are cheap even at 12)
Direwolf 5

Do you guys think this is fair or am I going a bit too nuts here?

I'll see if I can get some cross Army compairs going this weekend.

 

[Fujin]

And if BSBs allow the rerolling of all leadership-based tests? How many Ld 8-9 units would you expect to fail Fear checks?

A low weapon skill/toughness/strength/initiative model for 8pts? It's too much. A 1 or 2 points drop seems quite reasonable.


I feel Grave Guard are appropriately costed. Better weapon skill, save and toughness, Killing Blow. And oddly just as easy to raise back o.o

 

[artisturn]

I looked over the rule book for the first time, "Immune to Psycology" is a rule that acts like it did before.

So no, we are not a broken Army

My argument of reducing the point costs of our troops still stands however.

Again, I don't think it should be much of a drop, after all fear is still useful.

Zombies 2/3 points
Skellies 6 points
Black Knights 20 points
Blood Knights 45 points? (I have never used them yet, but I would guess they used to get a lot of kills because of the old fear)
Vamp lord: 190
Vamp 90
GG 10/11 (if not still 12, they are cheap even at 12)
Direwolf 5

Do you guys think this is fair or am I going a bit too nuts here?

I'll see if I can get some cross Army compairs going this weekend.

It would be nice if we got a point adjustment in the PDF but from what I have read so far it is only going to address rule changes I would be pleasantly surprised to see any point adjustments.

Well if you haven't tried using Blood Knights yet you should really give them a go in 7th edition while you still can.

back on topic:

I am glad about the step up rule it is going to be nice for Zombies to actually get an attack back.
And Zombies will be my go to guys when it comes to hordes, Ten wide ten deep horde of shambling undead for 400 points it won't be a tar pit it will be a tar ocean.

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

The only reason I'm not using a zombie horde is because I'm worried that I won't have a movement tray big enough for the endless mass of flesh

 

[Count Darvaleth]

The only reason I'm not using a zombie horde is because I'm worried that I won't have a movement tray big enough for the endless mass of flesh

Let alone a board.

 

[uga bug]

I'm definately going be using a big unit of zombies in 8th ed. Now that they will get attacks back I think they'll be more useful...I was abuot to say 'a lot' more useful but decided against that as they are still, well zombies!

The main problem I have is painting the large numbers of them!

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

The models are not a problem for me , whenever I'm bored I just make more zombies . And then I speed paint them in a day .

 

[Lord Fear]

Zombies will certainly not be more useful in 8th edition: just because you'll be getting all the attacks of two ranks, doesn't mean they'll actually do any damage. The fact that enemy units will be attacking with one more rank means that the Zombies will die twice as fast and lose combat by a proportionately bigger amount- so whereas 20 Zombies might've kept 20 Swordsmen doing 2 kills (+2 crumble) per combat phase in place for until your next turn, now the same enemy unit will kill something like 5 a turn, crumbling 5 more, meaning they won't be there anywhere near as quick. The same applies to out other infantry, but the easy access to relatively high numbers of power dice with massive bonuses to cast should help keep the army together- though don't expect single-dice spamming to achieve much!