Witch Elves...

[HERO]

No, I wouldn't shoot my bows at something with a 4+ armor save, I would instead take out the more fragile units like fast cav and other chaff, things I knew I could eliminate. The tougher units get zombie speedbumps to deal with.

I'll give you Wind of Death against Witches but not Curse of Years. How many 6's are you going to roll? Not many. How many 4+ wards will they make? Enough so that they will lose about 1-2 models per casting.

Knowing that, I wouldn't magic them at all. I would use my offensive spells on Executioners and whatever else isn't well protected.

You would magic them even less with Helleborn in there.

I like my Witches fat, and the crazy lady leading them. Things get utterly ridiculous, and I really mean utterly.

 

[Grok]

how many people are bringing a witch elf horde and an executioner one? If they do then they must have no chaff. While I agree witch elves wouldn't be a prime target for spells, if you need to score the unit spells to whittle them down combined with screams is how I would do it before entering combat. THis is presuming you are using your combat stuff to take out their support.

 

[Seneschal]

25-30 execs and 25-30 witches leaves plenty of room for 2 dark rider units, shades and the odd squad of harpies in addition to the token warlock unit or two.

 

[Grok]

I wouldn't really count 25 models as a horde unit. Against that particular list though shouldn't have any problems. That many points in infantry with very little chaff should be fairly easy to deal with. In that situation I would happily put a turn or two of spells into the executioners as they are so small they won't last against much fire

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

how many people are bringing a witch elf horde and an executioner one? If they do then they must have no chaff. While I agree witch elves wouldn't be a prime target for spells, if you need to score the unit spells to whittle them down combined with screams is how I would do it before entering combat. THis is presuming you are using your combat stuff to take out their support.

Only the shitty ones. The most competitive DE builds these days are all peg characters, dark riders, and brolocks. If there's witches it's a small(ish) unit of around 20 that you basically just want to ignore if you can't catch it with your BK bus.

 

[Von Drak]

Usualy my friend bring

lvl 4 dark magic for the shitty WS test on 9+ (this shit is so OP against us )
tullaris
death hag with witchbrew on cauldron(that shitty cauldron take the place of 12 for the horde ... WTF)

28 witch evles
3x5 dark riders
28-30 exec
2 RBT
2x5 warlock

How I should I take points from that ?!? Can't let my lord sitting back doing nothing ?

That's why I will bring a crypts horrors horde

 

[HERO]

No BSB? HA.

2496
8 drops

LORDS:
Crone Hellebron = 310
+Cauldron of Blood = 190

Lv.4 Supreme Sorc, Life = 300
Ring of Hotek, Scroll, Ironcurse

HEROES:
Master, BSB = 155
Heavy Armor, SDC, EShield, Dawnstone, SoMight

CORE:
34x Witch Elves, FC, Razor Standard = 449
5x Black Riders, Shield, RXB, Mus = 110
5x Black Riders, Shield, RXB, Mus = 110

SPECIAL:
31x Executioners, FC, SoDiscipline = 412
3x RBT = 210

RARE:
5x Warlocks = 125
5x Warlocks = 125

A lot of fun, but no friends.

It's actually one of the only DE lists I play, because it's fluffy too, since everything here rides for the Blood Queen!

 

[Von Drak]

@HERO Yeah sorry I forgot to mention, the BSB is the Hag with standard of discipline to give them the -2 frenzy test instead of -3

 

[HERO]

@HERO Yeah sorry I forgot to mention, the BSB is the Hag with standard of discipline to give them the -2 frenzy test instead of -3

That crazy frenzy test is kind of impairing for the DE. Having to test at -3 in general is pretty difficult, and makes them easy bait for the most part. The only thing that's challenging is when you have Ld.10 and BSB re-rolls in there. A Ld.7 test with re-rolls is not so bad..

Also, did I read your post correctly? That phrasing is a bit strange.

Frankly though, Cauldron isn't all that powerful from my opinion. I know that 190 points gets me 2 units of Shades with GWs instead for example..

One thing to also be concerned about is Hellebron. Her ridiculous number of high S attacks are the bane of most of the traditional counters to that unit (ethereal, armour, etc). Remember that the Cauldron isn't on the same base size as the rank-and-file and must always be in the middle of the unit, so can't make way to attack the flank (and can only get into combat by issuing and accepting challenges). Hellebron, so long as your opponent isn't an idiot and doesn't put her on a cauldron, counters this quite neatly.

HOWEVER, tag her with a nightshroud and she goes from having 10 S10 attacks with ASF to 10 S3 attacks at initiative. Not the worst.

Yup, Nightshroud is hilarious. A staple in my list these days since it has so many different applications.

 

[Seneschal]

@Grok
I never said "executioner horde." And yes, I said I would target Execs over Witch Elves so I agree with you there.

@Pirate
Please refrain from the insulting comments. Go to Druchii.net and take a look at how many players use execs in MMU lists and in other archetypes.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

@Pirate
Please refrain from the insulting comments. Go to Druchii.net and take a look at how many players use execs in MMU lists and in other archetypes.

You're right, my bad. I was just being flip but I can see how my comment came off as insulting.

Usualy my friend bring

lvl 4 dark magic for the shitty WS test on 9+ (this shit is so OP against us )
tullaris
death hag with witchbrew on cauldron(that shitty cauldron take the place of 12 for the horde ... WTF)

28 witch evles
3x5 dark riders
28-30 exec
2 RBT
2x5 warlock

How I should I take points from that ?!? Can't let my lord sitting back doing nothing ?

That's why I will bring a crypts horrors horde

My list for next weekend's tournament is:

Blender lord (standard build), level 4 vampires, hellsteed
Vampire Lord #2 (General), QB, RF, hellsteed, level 2 vampires, lance, shield, armour of destiny, potion of strength, dispel scroll
Wight King, barded steed, GW, nightshroud, DBG, HA
11 black knights, lances, barding, swiftness

40 skeletons, fc
39 skeletons, fc, flaming
4x5 dogs

2x4 vargheists



If I came up against the above list I would actually consider it quite a good matchup. He's got 8 drops plus characters, I've got 9 drops plus characters. Thus no matter who goes first he's down before I drop my bus.

I'd refuse-flank with wolves and skeletons in the centre, then bus+vargs on the weak flank (i.e. the side without the execs on it). Half my wolves zoom up to prevent his execs from swinging around and threatening the bus, or better yet to chaff his witches too and make them overrun into their way. Skeletons push to mid-field to threaten a flank/rear charge on the execs if they move to support.

Vargs eat bolt throwers and dark riders, avoiding the warlocks as much as possible. Skeletons are my best counter to warlocks if they venture into their charge range.

Goal is to eat his warmachines, some of his dark riders, and get my bus into his witches (who hard-counter them with their good saves and high T), while keeping his execs out of the fight.



The reason I'm dismissive of the witch elf cauldronstar is that it's an enormous amount of points sunk into a S3 T3 frenzied brick, which MUST overrun and tests to charge at LD-3 (unless it has Cry of War instead of Witch Brew, which is loads superior). Even with razor standard, put a unit of 1+ or 2+ armour saves in there and you'll massively blunt their damage and shred the witches to pieces on the counter-attack, knocking frenzy off of them in the process.


It's Hellebron that makes that unit mean, since she hard-counters their biggest weakness (i.e. armour). However as I've said...we have nightshroud to take the teeth out of her. Without her S bonuses or ASF she's just a really expensive elf with three T3 wounds and no saves.

 

[The Sun King]

@Seneschal and @Pirate Robot Ninja of Death it's awesome that you guys can settle misunderstanding so easily - I love that!