Mind you, there's nothing stopping us from jsut using the rules in the collective Vampire Counts warscroll or the G.A Death book instead of these rules... Therefore the Dragon could still be summoned....
Flesh eaters battle tome!!!
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Oppenheimer
Varghulf
I don't think that the Crypt Ghast Courtier does have a head of the vargheist. In the app he just looks like a regular Crypt Ghast with their head and everything.
But yeah, I agree to everything else you're saying.
Crypt Haunter Courtier is the unit's name. And yeah, that's a vargheist head. You can tell by the pointy cone head, pointy chin, and the big pointy bat ears.
I already built my Crypt Horror champ with some vargheist bits (a vargheist head, plus a single vargheist wing), and put him on some cork to raise him up, so he's already pretty good to go as a Haunter:
I guess the spiky guy in the back will be the new champion.
EDIT: much as the GK on ZD summons heroes with his command ability, and the GK on TG summons elite units, the GK on foot now has a command ability that summons units of 10 ghouls. That's nice, but I'll miss the high quality buff that he used to hand out. He now has a buff spell, targeting a single Flesh Eater unit, that adds an attack to their melee weapon profiles.
I already built my Crypt Horror champ with some vargheist bits (a vargheist head, plus a single vargheist wing), and put him on some cork to raise him up, so he's already pretty good to go as a Haunter:
I guess the spiky guy in the back will be the new champion.
EDIT: much as the GK on ZD summons heroes with his command ability, and the GK on TG summons elite units, the GK on foot now has a command ability that summons units of 10 ghouls. That's nice, but I'll miss the high quality buff that he used to hand out. He now has a buff spell, targeting a single Flesh Eater unit, that adds an attack to their melee weapon profiles.
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Well acually in the app the old warscroll is update so if you ever would like to use the app you cant summon the zombiedragon anymore. And I think the app is leading.
It seems that the grand alliance book is just not up to date anymore
From what I've seen of the new Flesh-Eater courts, they became more of a mob kind of army, with meh combat stats. The Ghoul King on foot was the best commander there was, but now things have changed.
Instead of buffing their combat prowess automatically (a 15'' +1 to hit and wound aura was too much...) they buffed them models-wise and now have more synergies among them, which is what I'd expect from cannibals hehe.
3 Ghoul Kings that can focus on a particular gameplay
- The One on foot can focus on normal Ghouls, and his spell may work best on the unit that will benefit the most out of the spell, in this case again, Ghouls if you have them massed and charging.
- The One on Terrorgheist can focus on your big elite Horros or Flayers, and his spell is a bit wider, that makes Flesh Eaters more durable. The Terrorgheist's shriek was changed again, making it D6 + wound chart coeficient, so that it doesn't hurt many heroes too much. Best of all, the Terrorgheist had an extra ability added to it that could bring it on-par with a Necrosphinx's decapitating strike, causing 6 mortal wounds on every To Wound roll of a 6.
- The new One on a Zombie Dragon makes him focus on multitasking, summoning the courtier you may later need that can boost your army. His spell is the best to have him at the center of the army and around models that benefit from better To Wound rolls (Terrorgheists and Crypt Horrors) but
The Varghulf is a must-have on any army since he functions as a wild card courier.
This may change strategy for using the Flesh Eaters, but add to them a sense of having a horde-like behavior.
I like it!
Instead of buffing their combat prowess automatically (a 15'' +1 to hit and wound aura was too much...) they buffed them models-wise and now have more synergies among them, which is what I'd expect from cannibals hehe.
3 Ghoul Kings that can focus on a particular gameplay
- The One on foot can focus on normal Ghouls, and his spell may work best on the unit that will benefit the most out of the spell, in this case again, Ghouls if you have them massed and charging.
- The One on Terrorgheist can focus on your big elite Horros or Flayers, and his spell is a bit wider, that makes Flesh Eaters more durable. The Terrorgheist's shriek was changed again, making it D6 + wound chart coeficient, so that it doesn't hurt many heroes too much. Best of all, the Terrorgheist had an extra ability added to it that could bring it on-par with a Necrosphinx's decapitating strike, causing 6 mortal wounds on every To Wound roll of a 6.
- The new One on a Zombie Dragon makes him focus on multitasking, summoning the courtier you may later need that can boost your army. His spell is the best to have him at the center of the army and around models that benefit from better To Wound rolls (Terrorgheists and Crypt Horrors) but
The Varghulf is a must-have on any army since he functions as a wild card courier.
This may change strategy for using the Flesh Eaters, but add to them a sense of having a horde-like behavior.
I like it!
Wait, im sorry, i got the ghoul courtier and horror courtier confused. The hortor courtier uses a vargheist head, the ghoul courtier is just a ghoul champ. Sorry for being confusing.
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Oppenheimer
Varghulf
In the recent FAQ they released on the Facebook page it says you can use the old versions of the rules wherever you want but to make sure your opponent is aware of what the difference as they may only have access to the newest versions.
Just a quick extra note - the Vamp Count compendium formations (skeleton horde & charnel pit carrion) are back up on the app now. They had been missing since the alliance book. The skeleton horde is pretty redundant with the skeleton formation from the alliance book. I'm not sure how the old ghoul formation will compare with anything from the new book.
And I'm just looking at the newly organized range and wondering at all this mess... So many courtiers, so many different entries coming from a single box...
Still - this switching of heads would probably give people ideas to experiment a bit with their minis, so that's good - and all the options give much more variablity - and I'm always for that
If only it wouldn't look as cheap as right now...
Still - this switching of heads would probably give people ideas to experiment a bit with their minis, so that's good - and all the options give much more variablity - and I'm always for that
If only it wouldn't look as cheap as right now...
The main thing to understand is there's a hero version of each unit champ. It wasn't that long ago that champion, hero, and lord level characters were distinguished mostly by arbitrary decisions on the part of the players, reflected by conversions or paint schemes rather than having separate models.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
So the general's companion is going to have points in it when it comes out. How is that going to work out when they're willing to change things constantly? Like with the terrorgeist now having a 6 moral wound attack and modified scream? If the new points are in a book and things change where are the points going to be updated?
Dark Lord Necrotis
Skeleton
I think the whole purpose of this is to be a living document of rules. GW will update scrolls or put new ones out and update the app as they come out with new things. I do think it is kind of cheap just replace heads and arms and not have new models but I do appreciate them giving us all of the rules updates for free.
Wasteland Jack
Zombie
I agree with the "being cheap" by just swapping heads and limbs. I am a little infuriated being that I just finished modelling my vargheists and crypt horrors to the old rules. I don't have time to read the warscrolls right now but am I correct in thinking that the new courtiers are just the champions of the old units? So A crypt ghast courtier leads the crypt ghouls, a crypt haunter courtier leads the crypt horros and the crypt infernal leads the vargheists?
Each unit still has a champion - Crypt Ghouls have their Crypt Ghast champion, Crypt Horrors have their Crypt Haunter, Crypt Flayers have their Crypt Infernal.
In addition to this, there are also hero versions of each champion called 'courtiers. 'Crypt Ghast Courtier', 'Crypt Haunter Courtier', 'Crypt Infernal Courtier'. There are not separate models for these at this time, so how you represent them is up to you. The official scrolls show the Ghast Courtier represented as a regular Ghast model, just with a different color scheme. For the Haunter and Infernal, they just use different extra vargheist bits. The Haunter has a Vargheist head, and the Infernal has a Vargheist back (but not a vargheist head, or then it would just be a vargheist).
Again, though, in the absence of separate models, how you represent these, if you use them at all, is up to you, like how tyranids had the warrior prime hero long before they had a specific model, or how many character models back in the old days could be used as champions, heroes, or lrods. It could be as simple as paint scheme variants.
Unless you're doing an overtly ghoul-themed army, you shouldn't feel bad about having assembled vargheists instead of flayers. Barring something weird with the new points system, flayers really aren't a better unit than vargheists. Just different, and even then not by very much. Flayers have a slight leg up due to having the Infernal Courtier hero who matches their theme and heals them, but even so, it's not that big a deal.
If you are playing pure ghoul theme, well, people probably won't begrudge you counts as, or you might be able to find someone to trade the vargheists to in exhange for new boxes that you can make flayers out of. After all, Soulblight are likely to get their own battletome eventually, with Vargheists getting attention then.
In addition to this, there are also hero versions of each champion called 'courtiers. 'Crypt Ghast Courtier', 'Crypt Haunter Courtier', 'Crypt Infernal Courtier'. There are not separate models for these at this time, so how you represent them is up to you. The official scrolls show the Ghast Courtier represented as a regular Ghast model, just with a different color scheme. For the Haunter and Infernal, they just use different extra vargheist bits. The Haunter has a Vargheist head, and the Infernal has a Vargheist back (but not a vargheist head, or then it would just be a vargheist).
Again, though, in the absence of separate models, how you represent these, if you use them at all, is up to you, like how tyranids had the warrior prime hero long before they had a specific model, or how many character models back in the old days could be used as champions, heroes, or lrods. It could be as simple as paint scheme variants.
Unless you're doing an overtly ghoul-themed army, you shouldn't feel bad about having assembled vargheists instead of flayers. Barring something weird with the new points system, flayers really aren't a better unit than vargheists. Just different, and even then not by very much. Flayers have a slight leg up due to having the Infernal Courtier hero who matches their theme and heals them, but even so, it's not that big a deal.
If you are playing pure ghoul theme, well, people probably won't begrudge you counts as, or you might be able to find someone to trade the vargheists to in exhange for new boxes that you can make flayers out of. After all, Soulblight are likely to get their own battletome eventually, with Vargheists getting attention then.
Don't forget Crypy Flayers are Mordants as well, and can be buffed with VDM. Currently Vargheists can't receive any buffs, save from command abilities (that I can think of)
EDIT: Also, if you're playing against Flesh-Eater courts, a Mournghul and Neferata will tear them appart, since the whole army save for the Ghoul Kings and Varghulfs have a terrible 4+ to Hit traits.
On the other hand, to strenghten the Flesh-Eaters outside their "tag" Necromancers will be a nice addition, but we'd have to wait for the points system to come out because I feel this army will require a lot of Heroes to work, with the Courtiers and all of the Ghoul Kings's spells.
EDIT: Also, if you're playing against Flesh-Eater courts, a Mournghul and Neferata will tear them appart, since the whole army save for the Ghoul Kings and Varghulfs have a terrible 4+ to Hit traits.
On the other hand, to strenghten the Flesh-Eaters outside their "tag" Necromancers will be a nice addition, but we'd have to wait for the points system to come out because I feel this army will require a lot of Heroes to work, with the Courtiers and all of the Ghoul Kings's spells.
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I'm not sure how Mournghuls help with screaming, they don't de-buff bravery.
Not that they aren't fantastic anyway, they absolutely are.
Not that they aren't fantastic anyway, they absolutely are.
I am pretty disappointed by the Terrorgheist changes. One of my main opponents plays lizardmen and the bat was the only bravery attack we had that had a chance at harming the bravery 10 and 12 reptiles. Now the Terrorgheist scream is as ineffectual against the lizardmen as the banshee, Mortis engine and new screaming vargheists are.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
The new 6 mortal wound bite of the TG is nice at least since the bite is 3 attacks and can be buffed up to 4 with black hunger.
Oh, wow, I hadn't noticed that debuff on the terrorgheist. Well, I mean, technically it's not much worse on average, and is more reliable, but the high end damage is way down. It's melee abilities, as pointed out, are more threatening than they were before, but still.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
Anyone interested in the new bundle? I considered it as I didn't have a GW zombie dragon or any varghulfs. But in the end I decided to just buy one of the new vargulf boxes. I have plenty of other not GW brand dragons I can slap my GK on the back of if need be. I'm going to use my vargheists as flayers as has been mentioned earlier. I have a Reaper ghoul to use for crypt ghoul hero. I'll just be out the flayer and crypt horror heroes. The vargulf and GK should be able to pull their weight I would think.
If I had more money at the moment, or less of a model backlog, or hadn't just purchased a friend's old tomb kings stuff, then I'd actually strongly consider it. It looks like a good bargain on a respectable model selection.
@Malisteen Sorry, don't know why I read Bravery debuff there D:
Vlad von Carstein's command ability can buff the Crypt Horror's Warriors Elite special rule to 5 and 6.
Mannfred, Mortarch of Night can aid this army's terrible To-Hit traits with his command ability (except for Crypt Horrors, who have an built-in re-roll when near a Ghoul King).
Although a Vampire Lord can buff any of these unit's attacks, the amount of Heroes this army requires is high, and I don't think we'll be able to fit them all in tournament play/points system.
A Wight King with an Infernal Standard can keep some of the Ghouls from dying too fast, without the need for you to cast Unholy Vitality on them and use it on something else (like a Terrorgheist, Zombie Dragon or Horrors/Flayers)
Mortis Engines can aid with those spells and heal some of the big guys once with the Reliquary. Very handy I think, plus the Banshee's aoe scream can do some damage from the distance.
That's all I can think of to get these guys going, like 3 Ghoul Kings, some Courtiers + Varghulf and focusing on either Horrors/Flayers and some Ghouls or 2 units of plenty ghouls and one or another of the elites.
Vlad von Carstein's command ability can buff the Crypt Horror's Warriors Elite special rule to 5 and 6.
Mannfred, Mortarch of Night can aid this army's terrible To-Hit traits with his command ability (except for Crypt Horrors, who have an built-in re-roll when near a Ghoul King).
Although a Vampire Lord can buff any of these unit's attacks, the amount of Heroes this army requires is high, and I don't think we'll be able to fit them all in tournament play/points system.
A Wight King with an Infernal Standard can keep some of the Ghouls from dying too fast, without the need for you to cast Unholy Vitality on them and use it on something else (like a Terrorgheist, Zombie Dragon or Horrors/Flayers)
Mortis Engines can aid with those spells and heal some of the big guys once with the Reliquary. Very handy I think, plus the Banshee's aoe scream can do some damage from the distance.
That's all I can think of to get these guys going, like 3 Ghoul Kings, some Courtiers + Varghulf and focusing on either Horrors/Flayers and some Ghouls or 2 units of plenty ghouls and one or another of the elites.