40k beginner army

[Danceman]

A kabalite warrior does not have 2 attacks, this is reserved for Trueborns.

Yes, you are correct on the pinning. Be wary of units who are immune to pinning tests though.

As for kabalite/wych units. You can probably get away with any combination as long as you play at your strengths. Like, if you have a lot of kabalite units you probably want to hang back and shoot and then swoop in and clean up the rest with the wyches. On the other hand if you have plenty of wyches you probably want to get into CC quick so hanging back shooting is likely to mean you're going to lose. Whichever is the more competitive I dare not yet say.

Cheers, D.

 

[Dogmar]

It was the trueborns that I meant, when refering to the kabalites. Kind of self-contradictory to have a unit of ranged specialists with 2 close combat attacks each, isn't it?

Are there many units out there that are immune to pinning? If so the idea might not be as good as I thought it was.

As far as army composition is concerned I like the idea of a fast and shooty list with a few CC units to benefit from the thinned enemy lines. Still it might be interesting how the haemonculi units like wracks and grotesques perform. A new codex always takes a few months to "settle" and find out useful combinations of things. Putting units into a fast moving transport with AP2 weapons sounds like a good bet regardless of other composition factors though.

I'm curious for the outcome of your matches on friday already and the new input they offer, but again, if anyone has different suggestions for another army, feel free to post them, as that is, what this thread was created for.

As I said in an earlier post, it looks like DE are the army of choice for now, but I'll wait for the hype to settle anyways so until I actually buy something I'm always open for discussion.

Cheers,

Dogmar

 

[Danceman]

The attacks aren't wholly wasted, certainly helps when push comes to shove. Sometimes you have to stay still in order to secure objectives or quite simply it is favourable to engage in combat(where the opponents shooting would be much worse than its CC attacks).

It is probably wise to wait till the hype drops and the sense of "new shiny stuff" doesn't cloud your judgement. It has to be said though, any other army is clearly inferior to DE in every way.

 

[Sanai]

Personally I would like to see DE face off against Tau. The tau are just unbelievably scary to face off against.

 

[Dogmar]

Sanai, would you care to explain that?

 

[Troll]

Personally I would like to see DE face off against Tau. The tau are just unbelievably scary to face off against.

I can see the entertainment in this match. In the hands of vets that know what they are doing with the armies, both are very capable of handling themselves.

Both armies are very fast, and huge benefits against each other.

Tau, with superior range, even their basic gun can penetrate any of the DE vehicles, but lack the close combat defense that DE will for sure mount on them. Missile pods and marker lights will help in dropping many vehicles before they can get to them.

On the other side, if DE can make it to the combat lines, you will be certain to see tau squads fall in rapid order, only for the DE to be shot up by the remaining survivors.

I have seen the fight under the old codex's many times, but with the new DE codex, and a lot more tricks up their sleeves, the DE will have to load aspirin into their combat drugs... just from the headaches both armies will have!

 

[Sanai]

The explanation is that the tau are incredibly, incredibly scary from my experience.
Their basic firearm, the pulse rifle is str 5, rapid fire with 36 range.
Their elites, the battlesuits, are mobile, tough, can hit and run and have jump packs, and can mount some insanely powerful weaponry.
Their tanks are all skimmers, which while fragile, are not as fragile as some (say dark eldar vehicles) and have good transport capacity, speed and firepower that can make space marines worry.
A skilled tau player can make a guard player blush in the shooting phase while outmaneuvering an eldar player in the movement phase.

The new dark eldar dex from what I have heard is very scary, combining close combat killyness with lots of tricks and high maneuverability, while being very fragile. This army requires a very skilled player.

Tau vs DE with the new dex, both with skilled players...that could possibly be the most entertaining match up possible.

 

[Danceman]

Some observations:

I've come to dig Wracks over Wyches due to; T4, always wounding on 4+, the liq.flamer gun is pretty sweet, Champ adds with Agoniser kills and also lends its pain token with the Archon(which I joined with the unit). Sure, you lose Fleet but overall I felt the survivability was worth it(plus they're just cooler!). Dark Eldar who freely offer themselves to the haemonculi covens to be able to feel new heights of pain and suffering.

Warriors are better than before and does fill the void of the lesser presence of Lances in the army. That is not to say they are AWESOME but for the points you spend, they're doing their job. Also don't forget it is a scoring unit. In smaller games helps you fill the Troops requirment as well. This is also a good place to put the haemonculi with Hexrifle as the poisoned weapons of the warriors should be targetting the same unit type anyways(as they can't harm vehicles).

Ravagers.... Mmmmmm, Ravagers. The foundation of your anti-vehicle division. Flickerfields are a must. Nightshields is a good addition as well, but your hurting for points the NS is the first thing that goes(as most S5 weapons usually have good range as well). Lances aren't as easy to come by anymore so make em count!

Reavers is more or less already confirmed as a good unit. 6 with 2 heat lances does the job. Zoom back and forth and pop a vehicle in the rear. Others are using even bigger squads but this is the one that works for me(and as I've only had 750 games now I have to restrain myself).

I am not sure about Incubi or Mandrakes yet(incubi is a bit of point sink at low point games). There are only so many units you can field at 750 points. The army list seem to be less unforgiving than it was previously but at the same time this may just be me still on the "new codex"-high. I expect more battles to come and with different units as I go along(holidays coming up and all that stuff... so we'll see!).

Cheers, D.

 

[Bishop]

I've not had a game yet. :'(

However, I am SOO looking forward to using Incubi with FLEET! Looks, so awesome. The one thing that I really didn't like in previous edition was having the Incubi slowing down the Archon. But, this is a thing of the past now!

Not sure how I feel about no vehicles from the WWP... I used the WWP a lot, and had my Archon/Incubi on a Raider in the WWP... it was quite the threat range on that from the portal. And was very nice to laugh when people tried to block the portal... Will still have to try that out, after all, I'll have to test out the Taloi.

 

[Dogmar]

Hey guys, sorry for the threadomancy, but since this is my own thread, I think it's acceptable.

After a short break from wargaming - other things were and in fact still are interfering with my plans - I'm now more or less back and have got my hands on a very cheap copy of the rules (buying an English book on the German ebay is VERY cheap, I guess many people are afraid of reading such a thing in English). As the topic is back on the screen now, I'd like to get a bit more insight in the different armies again.

So have you had any more games and information on DE and Tau? Is there possibly a new release on the horizon (new battlesuits please!)? There is a new wave of DE supposed to arrive soon I believe. I'm still very undecided and although I generally don't like SMurfs the new Blood Angels are quite appealing. For example a dropship tactic or an all jump pack army sounds cool to me. The only thing that bothers me is that they're space marines and EVERYONE has them. Is there a way to make them look less like a clumsy toy soldier (please forgive my unkind words about their looks, all you SM players out there). I've thought about a corrupted company, maybe tainted by khorne or something, which would offer some conversions and additions to the armour to break up the boring armor design.

I generally want my army to be small, flexible and customizable. The reasons are that I like tactically challenging elite armies, I want to be able to convert a lot of models and I don't want to spend loads of money.


Cheers guys, let me know what you think


Dogmar

 

[Danceman]

I kinda blanked out on this as well.

The name of the game for Incubi seem to be 5 of them in a Venom(extra SC) and Grisly throphies. The venom is just pure fun with its 12 poisoned shots at 36" and free 5++ save. The trophies helps out a lot as well once things start getting grimey.

Mandrakes are so-so. I wish they'd have the shooting attack intitially as being dependant on Pain Tokens makes them unreliable in all-comers lists. I will keep on using them though, cause when they work they really work.

I still like Warriors but I lean more and more towards Scourges. No need for a transport and that 4+ saves does make a rather big difference and their firepower is pretty damn impressive. For this reason I would advice Trueborn and Scourges for shooty units(unless you need to fill a troop slot and don't want Wyches or Wracks(if you have a haemie)).

The Talos is an interesting prospect. The twin-haywire blaster is very good at incapitating enemy tanks and has a chance to destroy them. Ravager remain a solid choice but is no way a no-brainer now. The voidraven with the FAQ released is a much more interesting choice. This is because it can use its void mine while moving flat out(and since it is supersonic its flat out move is 36"). It does not count as using a weapon either. So if you pass something over you want dead...

Overall, I have nothing but words for the DE codex. It is very elite in nature and does actually do MSU-style play rather well.

The BA dex looks rather interesting though I have immense problems with the models. Something is just off about them, I think it is because they make me think of Final Fantasy and J-RPGs in general. Too much "going on" if you know what I mean.

Cheers, D.

 

[Dogmar]

Good news, some friends at the local gamestore offered me to borrow their codices for a quick read to make the decision easier. So now I have the DE codex, the Blood Angels codex and the Tau codex. By monday, tuesday at the latest my rulebook should arrive, so overall I think I'm well prepared. The decision is still hard though. I've skimmed all three books briefly, but they all have fancy stuff that makes me think "I want you!!!".

On the BA I have to agree with you Danceman, the angel wings look a bit japanese, but maybe with a different paintjob it can work out. C'mon, who doesn't like an all jump-pack / dropship force?! Still, they're smurfs... any ideas for a more fancy looking corrupted (by demons or something) BA? Would that be acceptable by fluff?

The one little thing that bugs me with DE is that I can't really imagine what the units that have not been released yet look like - and by the way they look kinda japanese as well, so your previous argument is more or less invalid I don't want my army to look to messed up while still following a unique theme. I'll have to rethink the opportunities for that with the DE force. Expect some of my ideas soonish.

On the tau... well, on the first glance they seem to lack the thematic variation, as they are and will always stay a shooty army. while the fluff offers variation in colours (different homeworlds) the structure of tau society prevents really fancy thematic armies /conversions... I hope it is clear what I intend to say with that . the battlesuit models are also in deep need of a redo - good point for conversions though! What I really do like about them is the Jump-Shoot-Jump thing... that hit and run / search and destroy playstyle is very cool.

Cheers,

Dogmar

 

[Danceman]

The one little thing that bugs me with DE is that I can't really imagine what the units that have not been released yet look like - and by the way they look kinda japanese as well, so your previous argument is more or less invalid I don't want my army to look to messed up while still following a unique theme. I'll have to rethink the opportunities for that with the DE force. Expect some of my ideas soonish.

I don't see the japanese aspects of DE, bar the Samurai-looking Mandrakes but my argument still stands. DE looks more like Eldar meets Hellraiser, I think.

I know it is an irrational thing but I just hate all the spectacle games(like WoW and its silly proportions, FF and so on). Gets under my skin, is all.

That said, all three codics are solid and probably will be quite fun.

 

[Dogmar]

Examples for the japanese looking of DE. Hair needles, haircuts of wyches, sails on the vehicles, even the unit names in a way... maybe it's just me Are there going to be releases for every yet "unresembled" unit?

I'm going to read through the special rules now... still thinking of a possible conversion theme for DE / Tau... and worrying about demonic BA... (yes, I'm very much into painting and converting ^^ )

 

[Danceman]

From warseer

Here is a list of what Hastings has confirmed.
Plastic Kits
Talos and Cronos box.
Venom.
Voidraven and "other aircraft" box (I'm assuming the Razorwing).
Scourges.

Metal Kits
Succubus.
Beastmasters.
Clawed Fiends.
Chimeras.
Razorwing Flocks.

Some are going to arrive in march but most in april.

Examples for the japanese looking of DE. Hair needles, haircuts of wyches, sails on the vehicles, even the unit names in a way... maybe it's just me

I don't see it. The needle and hairstyle makes me think of early african tribes, ancient indian tribes(Aztec, Mayan, Inca) as they're a bit too wild and crude to be the calm and composed fashion of ancient Japan though, I agree, their sails(as well as the raider/ravager) does ressemble the ships of ancient Japan. Even so, I do not see the J-RPG and Anime traits anywhere, which was after all the aspect I expessed a strong dislike for. I wasn't saying I hated japanese culture, after all. Infact, the Mandrakes is my favourite unit in the new range(shame they're metal). It is the over-the-top models and overstated features that irks me in the BA range.

 

[Lynks]

One of the people at my store have converted an army of renegade/ pirate tau which is pretty cool, but the demonic BA would work well

 

[Danceman]

but the demonic BA would work well

They're effectively vampires already, if a bit emo about it. Adding a daemonic factor to them would definitely remove any of that! The over the top minis might even work to your advantage with such a theme.

 

[Dogmar]

Thanks for the comments.

Danceman, I can't really figure out if your post is meant positively or negatively? Is removing the vampiric character of the BA good or bad? And is a corrupted BA force (say by khorne for the sake of even more blood) acceptable by fluff - even if it stretches the stuff from the codex a bit?!

Still undecided by the way but I think I can finally dismiss Tau completely now. Cool tactics and rules available but I don't see what to do about the models and the fluff. So the race is between DE and BA.

 

[Danceman]

Positive. Adding a bit of daemonic struggle would serve them well I think. Give them a bit more bite, so to speak.