Age of Sigmar "grand alliance of Death" incoming

[Sception]

Whelp.

LINK.


my first impression... isn't positive. I'm going to put it in spoilers to avoid pre-emptively spoiling anyone's mood. Click the link to the Bols rumor page and form your own opinion before reading below.

Spoiler

88 pages, compared to the chaos book's 300.
8 sub factions, compared to the chaos book's 20.
only a single formation.

Where the chaos book took pains to work nearly every old world chaos unit and faction into the setting in some way, the undead 'grand alliance' seems to be vamp counts only, with nary a tomb king in sight.

Where the chaos book brought together old stuff and a bunch of recent new releases, the undead book is coming out before we've seen any new AoS undead models, meaning that either this 'all inclusive' reference (that dropped half the existing undead models and forgets twice as many formations as it adds even for the half of the undead in includes), either it's going to no longer be all inclusive depressingly quickly, or, more likely, and even more depressingly, we're not going to be seeing any Death faction new releases for AoS any time soon.

At least it's cheap!


Hard for me to not see this as a massive disappointment, though. One that really takes the wind out of my sails. I've been pretty gung ho about Age of Sigmar despite everything, but this may be a bit much for me. As a chaos player in 40k, I've been on the receiving end of a few too many new faction books that felt less like a reason to get excited about my army and more like the back of GW's hand for me to be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

[El Syf]

Well that does seem an odd move, maybe they want to make all the other factions so redundant people will only want to collect stormcasts.
Having recently assembled two units of archers the news on tomb king units is a bit hard to swallow .
Age of sigmar seems to have quite an 80's vibe to it for better or worse...

 

[Oppenheimer]

Regardless of what they do going forward they came out with rules for all the existing models from the get go so we'll always have that anyway. I'm going to keep using my skeleton archers in my undead army until they bring out some new ranged units.

 

[El Syf]

Will the old war scrolls not get deleted when this drops?

 

[Sception]

Judging from the Chaos book, no, nothing will get deleted, though likely several of the tomb kings models will eventually no longer appear on the web store. I'd expect anything fine cast or metal to disappear in short order, and other stuff more slowly. If you have any particular desire for TK stuff, it might be worth grabbing it sooner rather than later. Assuming this change has you in a buying mood at all.

I kind of still wanted a couple boxes of chaiots, some ushabti, and a screaming skull catapult. Now, I'm not so sure.

Stuff vanishing from the web page may make it harder to find the scrolls online, though the dropped scrolls from the chaos line (mostly just chaos trolls, chaos ogres, and a couple special characters) are still available on the app, as are old versions of scrolls that have been revised (ie, the old chaos lord scroll, which has been replaced by a new chaos lord, albeit under another name, in the GAoC book).

It shouldn't render the existing tomb kings compendium unusable. I'm not sure what that would even mean under Age of Sigmar. So Tomb Kings rules still exist to use, but it's very likely that they won't be given a place in the new setting, and the recent rumors of a new bone giant model are looking less and less likely.

We'll see.

 

[Sception]

Ok, so another preview/leak is up, with a description of the 'factions' in GAoD, though the pages are a bit hard to make out. Seems like:

Deathlords: Nagash, the three plastic mortarchs, their morghast bodyguards. Krell & Vlad to not seem to be among them.
Soulblight: non deathlord vampires - vamp lord, vamp lord on zombie dragon, coven throne, blood knights, vargheists.
Deathmages: necromancers and the mortis engine.
Deadwalkers: zombies, dire wolves, corpse carts
Deathrattle: skeletons, wights, black knights, wight kings*.
Flesh Eater Courts: ghoul kings (including on terrorgheists, ghouls, horrors
Beasts of the Grave: unridden gheists and dragons**
Nighhaunts: spirit hosts, hexwraiths, wraiths, banshees, and the black coach

* Krell is shown, but not mentioned, meaning he's likely to go the way of the lizardmen special characters, with a demotion to generic hero.

** since they're in a separate faction, that means they're going to be separate war scrolls from the same monsters mounted, which means two less scrolls even than what we had already expected.


Alright, so we know we're only getting 35 units total, lets see if we can take the above list and work out who didn't make the cut. You know, apart from the entire tomb kings army.

Spoiler

based on units mentioned/seen in the previews:

1- Nagash
2- Arkhan
3- Neferata
4- Mannfred
5- Morghast Archai
6- Morghast Harbingers
7- Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon
8- Vampire Lord on Foot
9- Blood Knights
10- Vargheists
11- Coven Throne
12- Mortis Engine
13- Necromancer
14- Zombies
15- Dire Wolves
16- Corpse Cart
17- Wight King
18- Skeleton Warriors
19- Grave Guard
20- Black Knights
21- Ghoul King on Terrorgheist
22- Crypt Ghouls
23- Crypt Horrors
24- Unridden Zombie Dragon
25- Unridden Terrorgheist
26- Spirit Hosts
27- Hexwraiths
28- Cairn Wraith
29- Banshee
30- Black Coach
31-
32-
33-
34-
35-

That leaves only five slots open, for the 11 remaining scrolls from the vamp counts book which I vies as questionable:

Vlad
Isabella
Konrad
Count Mannfred
Kemmler
Krell
Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror
Ghoul King on foot
Varghulf
Fell Bats
Bat Swarms

Which do you think will make the cut? If I had to guess, I'd say a generic version of Krell, plus ghoul king on foot, varghulf, fell bats, and bat swarms, with the terror riding vamp lord joining the remaining special characters in the tomb kings dust bin.

 

[Menkeroth]

I'd say last 5 can make it, but the absence of TK worries me as well... either they will make them a different factions or... or. I certainly hope they won't get rid of them.

 

[Sception]

I expect them to be gone. Not for the IP reasons some have claimed, but rather because their models just don't fit with the vamp counts, aesthetically. The tomb kings use the old skeleton models, which are completely different in scale, proportion, and style from the vamp counts skeletons and wights, and do not look good alongside them. Practically the entire line is based on those old skeletons in some way, and the only exceptions are finecast models (some of the character models, the Ushabti). That, and I'd guess TK sales haven't been good, for quite a while now, even by fantasy standards.

Of course, the problem with dropping them because sales have been bad is that sales for the TK have been bad because people were afraid they'd be dropped. It's kind of self fulfilling, and could easily lead to a death spiral for age of Sigmar, as those interested in other factions see what happened with Tomb Kings and also refuse to buy until they get some confirmation that GW will keep supporting them.

Honestly, I think it's a terrible move. And I especially feel that if GW wasn't ready to give the Undead actual attention & new releases, then thy should have left us with the compendiums, and released a different book - perhaps a battletome for one of the individual subfactions. That kind of product might make existing players excited about the possibility of future attention, instead of sending the message that nothing new would be coming soon, and quite possibly ever.

 

[Menkeroth]

I hope they will do so, they divide other armies now and so I think our undead will be divided into two-three subfactions as well, but I agree that extreme focus on Stormcasts and Chaos is not going to change any time soon and many people could get frustrated (I am not that much yet because it's a chance for me to buy all those models I don't yet have before they will be remade or dropped out completely).

 

[Sception]

I wasn't frustrated by the heavy focus on Stormcast and Chaos, because our compendiums were good, and I was confident that we'd get some real attention eventually, and after GAoC went out of its way to include almost everything from the old chaos lines, I was finally confident that tomb kings had a good chance of finding a place in the new setting as well. The GAoD book is literally worse than nothing, shattering both illusions and and offering me nothing new to play with apart from a single formation, one which looks to be a retread of the deathrattle formation we already had.

 

[Eyeless]

well this seems like utter shit. i think i'll still get any TK units i like before they're gone and use them. Besides i've already printed out all the current VC and TK warscrolls. What Grand alliance? it's just a reduced VC range!

 

[Oppenheimer]

I'm surprised to see the black coach. They haven't shown that model in anything since the 8e VC book. It's a fine cast model. It got a nerf in the rules. I would expect them to drop it entirely.

Bat swarms, vargulf and stragoi on foot are all not plastic so I'll be surprised to see them make the cut. Are Abyssal terrors finecast? Heinrich might become genetic necromancer?

 

[Sception]

Yeah, I honestly expected more of the finecast VC stuff to be dropped, but then again I was expecting some of the TK plastics to be kept, so... *shrug*.

But the black coach is specifically mentioned as still in, and 35 scrolls means we're probably keeping fell bats and bat swarms as well, though it's iffy.

The old von carsteins are almost certainly left out, same with Kemmler. To me, the real question is Krell vs. Abyssal Terror. Both are finecast, neither are mentioned where I would expect them to be in the leaked pages where they still there. My guess is that the abyssal terror is gone, and Krell will be included, but as an unnamed generic hero occupying the same 'suped up wight king to actually lead your army' position he currently occupies.

But we might see the abyssal terror carried forward, and the regular wight king just given a great weapon option to represent krell instead.

Not the biggest deal either way, since the existing scrolls don't stop existing just because they didn't make it into the new compendium. 'official' and 'unofficial' aren't really words that exist or matter in Age of Sigmar. But either way, it's kind of depressing.

 

[Eyeless]

And why did they keep only mannfred neferata and arkhan as mortarcs? why drop vlad and krell?

 

[Oppenheimer]

Because they didn't get expensive new models?
I had hoped they would bring out another set of Mortarc models that included those two on new steeds.

 

[Sception]

Because they're Finecast. And because Vlad got a proper send off in the End Times, and bringing him back again would cheapen it.

Personally, I'd love to see new mortarchs. In particular, a new Mortarch triple kit - with the same dread abyssal mount but three new mortarch riders: if I had my way Isabella, Khalida, and Krell - would be fantastic.

But if any new models at all were in the works, let alone anything that cool, we'd have seen it before the Grand Alliance book, not after.

 

[Oppenheimer]

It's possible we could get them in conjunction with the new book. The Fyreslayers tome came out before the battle Smith did. But the new models would be included in the new book and would come out a week after or so. A faint hope.

 

[Sception]

Not really, not when we already know how many scrolls total are in the book - only 35. That's 6 fewer total units than the Vamp Count compendium on its own, once you consider that terrorgheists and zombie dragons look to be getting two separate scrolls each (ridden and unridden), when in the compendium the ridden and unridden options were presented on a single scroll.

Even if you toss out the finecast special characters, that doesn't leave any spaces for anything else. Any new unit or TK hold over would come at the cost of more VC units missing. What will go? Varghulfs? Fell bats or bat swarms? Strigoi on foot? Abyssal Terrors? Not the Black Coach, that's already confirmed to be in there.

I have my fingers crossed that well keep some version of krell (generic or otherwise) in place of the abyssal terror vamp, but even that's a long shot.

 

[Oppenheimer]

Perhaps we will get a new model for an old mini. Like a new abyssl terror model to replace the old one. That wouldn't use a slot and would give us a new model.
Not saying it's likely or anything.

 

[Sception]

We'll see. It would be nice to get new stuff, but as far as I can tell, skipping straight to 'Grand Alliance' with half of the existing alliance just gone, is as clear a confirmation as we could get that the designers have no interest in expanding the undead line in AoS at this time, or for the forseeable future.

 

[Eyeless]

so this picture's been doing the rounds lately..

seems legit. also will they make a comeback sometime in the future? hope so but i guess not :/

 

[Sception]

If AoS lasts long enough, I'm sure some TK concepts will return in some form or another, years from now. I'm just not confident about the game making it that far.

 

[Oppenheimer]

That makes me nervous. It's one thing to not have them in the book, another to no longer sell them. I think I might buy a bunch of that stuff just in case. Ushtabi have 4+ to hit ranged and chariots have great regen so they're good purchases.

 

[Sception]

yeah, I'd like to grab couple tomb kings items myself. In particular, two boxes of chariots, a box of VC skittles (to replace the chariot crew), maybe a single additional chariot off the secondary market (to mount my spare TK on), two boxes of ushabti (undecided great weps or bows), two boxes of tomb guard, a box of stalkers, khalida, and Apophas. At least, that was all the tomb kings stuff on my long term wish list. Had GW only waited a month or so, I'd have my tax refund in, and might have picked the entire lot up. As it is... this stuff will probably not still be obtainable then. Certainly not at a reasonable price. Not sure what if anything I can afford to grab in the mean time.

 

[Eyeless]

i get you guys :/ i'm in the same boat