• Roll-up! Roll-up! Come one and all the fantastic Turning the World to Darkness painting competition. Welcome to any skill level, you can find out more here.
  • It's time once again to ferret out those murderous vampires in a new VAU - Vampires Amongst Us. A cross between Cluedo and a roleplay, sometimes gory and often hilarious! Find out more here.

BA - 8th Edition Review: Necrarchs

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
419
#26
Wait, I am pretty sure that RiP spells can be cast and the wizard is still allowed to cast other spells now...

Think Throne of Vines...
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
33
#27
Okay, well ... I guess that no one else is paying attention
Really sorry, I'd like to help you. But I only have interest in the bloodline's army list, I'm not fond of creating new powers, for some reasons I told in another thread. As soon as you'll come into army list, I'll probably help you :tongue:
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#28
Well, I'll be...

I guess that this power can be dropped or reworked completely then (since everyone can continue to cast after casting a RiP now, ref pg 36 BRB under Remains in Play)

Maybe something like.

Necromantic Master - All spells from the Lore of Vampire are treated as Necromancy spells, and the caster gains +6" range to all Necromancy spells.

@Caleb - That should hopefully be sooner (rather then later) as the major power changes have been done already.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#29
Yes, your change to Complete Focus seems fine with me Bishop. The Necromancy spell part combined with +6" range should be potent.

Personally I like Experimentation. It goes with the Necrarch ethos, and it is a little bit like WoC Eye of the Gods, where a unit gets a bonus. I say we keep as is.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#30
OKay, I changed the rules, but left it as Complete Focus. Might want to rename it/redo fluff. I think it's okay at 40ish points still.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#32
yes, seems okay to me... unless anyone else *looks into the void* has any ideas..

Nope, just us :innocent:

Let's move on. Seems like some other might be interested in army list items.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
33
#33
Yup.

As I said before, I won't comment bloodline powers, but let see the army list in itself. I do think the list is quite good, as a Necrarch army should be a horde of horrible zombies and experiments, with nightmare monsters behind them.

Abyssal terror is not a powerful monster, and Necrarchs are not really good when we're coming to close, so I don't see any problem if heroes can mount some of this monsters. I don't see any interest either, cause it's something like 300 easy points to take, but why not? However, its upgrades are far too expensive. Creating a terror with a dark dragon profile cost 340 pts, without the scale save and the breath attack, with all the undead weaknesses. Not really appealing. Only devastating charge worths its points, imo.

Core is terrible: corpse carts, zombies and skeletons are underpowered with the 8th Ed., they really need some kind of improvement. Maybe a champion level vampire that boosts the unit? Experiments are a good idea, but their random effect decreases their interest. Why can't we give points to spend instead of rolling dices? The player could create his own experiments according to his plans, and use the surprise effect. That could make a more balanced unit.

Special: Seems quite good. Like every list in 8th Ed., I think a necrarch will spam GG, and put some Wraiths too. The only problem is that this units are not really necrarch-styled. A monstruous infantry unit?

Rare: Black knights would be better in special units. They're not dangerous enough to become rare. And I don't see the point in the 0-1 Varghulf limitation.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#34
Hmm, yes I can see the point on Experiments. It would be quite fun to have a nasty surprise for the enemy.

Something along the lines:

Experiments - Unit size 10-30. 0-1 unit per full 2000pts

Experiments do not need to be announced to your opponent, they are placed on the board as if they are a normal zombie unit. As soon as an enemy unit is in base contact, or the unit is hit by an enemy spell or missile you must then reveal that the unit are Experiments.

Zombies are the base model, cost as per the normal entry +2ps per model.

The player may then choose upto 4 of the following mutations, which apply to every model:

Dhar Infusion: 4+ regeneration. 4pt per model
Aura of Despair: All enemy models in based contact suffer from -1 leadership. 30pts per unit
Skin of Steel: Scaly Skin save of 4+. 2pts per model
Increase Strength: +2S. 2pts per model
Increase Toughness: +2T. 3pts per model
Rabid: +1A, Frenzy. 3pts per model
Ninja of the Night: Initiative 8. 3pts per model
Night Stalkers: May march move as per the BRB. 20pts per unit

In addition a random mutation occurs. When the unit is first revealed as Experiments, roll a D6 and apply one of the following results:

1: The unit is Flammable
2-3: Magically Linked: All attempts to cast IoN at this unit benefit from +2 to cast.
4-5: Overwhelming: No unit may be steadfast when facing this unit.
6: Wizards Bane: The unit has MR (3). In addition, a enemy spell which specifically targets this unit and is dispelled is rebounded on the wizard that cast it on a roll of 5+. The enemy wizard may choose to attempt to dispel the rebounded spell using his power dice as dispel dice.


I'll wait for feedback on that before going onto the next unit xD
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#35
I like a lot of that, just a couple of suggestions/changes.

- paying extra points for Zombies, even with a small random advanatage, is still wrong. I'd drop the extra point cost... it's already limited due to 0-1 /2000 pts restriction.

- Aura of Despair, I think that this could be cheaper.. maybe 20 pts

- Rabid, this should be Frenzy only (the +1 A and Frenzy is actually +2 atks, which is not likely what you were thinking xD )

- Ninja of the Night, I'd change this to ASF.. it's simpler, serves the same purpose in almost every case.

- needs to be explicitly stated that they are still Zombies (in order to benefit from IoN just as Zombies would), if that's the intent


Personally, I think that they should be categorized... to prevent them from being really broken.

May be upgraded as follows:

May take one of:
Dhar Infusion: 4+ regeneration. 4pt per model
Skin of Steel: Scaly Skin save of 4+. 2pts per model
Increase Toughness: +2T. 3pts per model

May take one of:
Increase Strength: +2S. 2pts per model
Rabid: Frenzy. 3pts per model

May take any of:
Ninja of the Night: ASF. 3pts per model
Night Stalkers: May march move as per the BRB. 20pts per unit
Aura of Despair: All enemy models in based contact suffer from -1 leadership. 20pts per unit
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#36
Yeah, I like that a better, with the random bonus (or not if 1 is rolled) after. Do you think we have enough options there, or do we need a few more?
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#37
Can you think of any other options that you'd want to add?

Maybe up to 3 of (paid during list creation, instead of 4) and then the random one (during deployment) should be fine.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#38
I think the player should actually be able to take any combination of the powers. So if they really wanted to create a tough, armoured, regeneration zombie unit they could do. It would be expensive and not much good offensively which I think would balance out. So with that in mind, I think the final version should look something like this:


Experiments - Unit size 10-30. 0-1 unit per full 2000pts

Zombies are used as the base model, costing the same points and following all the rules that are applicable to Zombies. The only exception is that this unit cannot be raised above its original starting size.

The player may then choose upto 3 of the following mutations, which apply to every model:

Dhar Infusion: 4+ regeneration. 4pt per model
Skin of Steel: Scaly Skin save of 4+. 2pts per model
Increase Toughness: +2T. 3pts per model
Increase Strength: +2S. 2pts per model
Rabid: Frenzy. 3pts per model
Ninja of the Night: ASF. 3pts per model
Night Stalkers: May march move as per the BRB. 20pts per unit
Aura of Despair: All enemy models in based contact suffer from -1 leadership. 20pts per unit

In addition a random mutation occurs. When the unit is first revealed as Experiments, roll a D6 and apply one of the following results:

1: The unit is Flammable
2-3: Magically Linked: All attempts to cast IoN at this unit benefit from +2 to cast.
4-5: Overwhelming: No unit may be steadfast when facing this unit.
6: Wizards Bane: The unit has MR (3). In addition, a enemy spell which specifically targets this unit and is dispelled is rebounded on the wizard that cast it on a roll of 5+. The enemy wizard may choose to attempt to dispel the rebounded spell using his power dice as dispel dice.

Experiments do not need to be announced to your opponent, they are placed on the board as if they are a normal zombie unit. As soon as an enemy unit is in base contact, or the unit is hit by an enemy spell or missile you must then reveal that the unit are Experiments.


How does that look?
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#39
Can test it out and see how it goes.

I was just thinking that Zombies with 4+ Regen and T5 might be a little much. If you toss in one offense power, like St 5 could make those pretty crazy. Yeah they'd be expensive... but they can be raised as well.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#40
I think testing would be necessary. Such a unit would be expensive after all.

So, if we are happy with Experiments, what needs to be covered next? Just had a look at the AT:

Abyssal Terror Upgrades
The line of W'soran like to experiment with all their undead creations. Their favoured creatures however, are always the monsters they create by melding parts of other creatures together. Be it Wyvren, Dragon, Manticore or other hellish creature, the sum of the parts can prove to be much deadlier.

You may choose to increase the statistics of one Abyssal Terror in your army. If this is a mount, it must be the mount of the general.

+1 S: 25pts per increase. Can only be taken a maximum of twice.
+1 WS: 5pts per increase upto max WS6. Each increase over the first doubles the points costs, so +2WS will be 10pts, +3WS, 20pts and so forth
+1 T: 35pts per increase can only be taken once
+1 A: 15pts per increase, Can be taken a maximum of three times.
+1 W: 50pts, max total 7 wounds.
+1 I: 5pts. Each increase over the first doubles the points costs, so +2I will be 10pts, +3I, 20pts and so forth

Special Rule Options
Scaly Skin / Tough Hide: +1 to the creatures armour save upto a max of 2+ armour save. 5pts per increase, each increase over the first doubles the points costs, so +2 to save will be 10pts, +3 to save will be 20pts and so forth.
Devastating Charge - Causes D6+1 impact hits in the charge: 35pts basic, add an additional 10pts for each strength upgrade.
Guardian - All ranged shots must be allocated against the AT. Any attacks in close combat must be randomised as per shooting, the rider cannot be specifically targeted. 50pts
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#41
Looking at the AT upgrades. I think that we should

1) Drop Devastating Charge all together (combined with Stomp, it's just too much!)
2) Cap wounds at 6.. its still LOTS!

Everything else seems fine to me. Though not sure how much testing, if any, occurred using an AT.
 

Uziel

Vargheist
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
689
#42
Is it too late to join the discussion?

I have some ideas for making a Necrarch army a bit more unique, and some comment on what I''ve read so far:

1. Regarding the Bloodline of W'Soran Ability, I'd go for a maximum level of 4 with an additional +1 to cast, as opposed to lvl 5 (even though Arkhan has this). I'd rather focus on broadening their knowledge somewhat instead, as I see them being more obsessed with necromantic knowlege than actual raw power. Some modifications I would consider would be:

-Roll 2-3 random spells from any lore of Battlemagic, except Lore of LIFE or LIGHT. I know Tomb Kings can use light, but they have that Phtra connection in the fluff. Vampires and light don't go all that well together in my opinion.

2. As far as those Experiments go, I have a few thoughts:

-Ignore the normal Zombie Stat line, and start with something like the following instead:
M 4; Ws 2; BS 0; S3; T; 3; W 1; I 1; A 1; LD 2
-Reduce that Scaly Skin to 5+. Same cost or make it a cost you pay for the whole unit in the same way as Marks of Chaos in the WoC list. That goes for all the listed abilities. If they count as Zombies for IoN purposes, then the exact point cost pr/model is going to be flawed anyway.
-Make that Regeneration a 5+ regeneration instead, as
-I would change +1 Toughness to re-roll successfull rolls to wound from attacks of S3 or less. That's something I personally would like to see on all Zombies btw..
-Rabid: Decrease cost a bit, since they are such poor fighters in the first place.
-"ninja of the Night"? I think I would change "Ninja" to something else, as it doesn't quite fit with the theme in my opinion.

Some ideas that I think would be fitting with a Necrarch theme are:
-Claws with Armour Piercing.
-Since Necrarchs tend to conceal their towers within the deepest forests of the Empire (and other places one can assume) and they seem to have a bit of a hang-up on spiders, I would consider an Obstacle Strider/Forest Strider ability on the Zombies. That would allow the experiments to become even more horrific, since they gain some new tactical options.

I quite liked the random mutation idea, although the possible Magic Resistance (3) seems a bit much on a "Zombie" unit. Just seem to me that that would be something very hard for a Wizard to "create", especially by accident.

The "Overwhelming" idia is something I have been working on for Zombies (Revenants in my own Legions of Nagashizzar list) which I think fits very well with the Zombie theme. I really like that idea, and it could make zombies a useful unit again.

3. Have you considered Monstrous Infantry/Beasts Experiments? I'm in the middle of working on "Bone Engines" for my own Nagashizzar list, but I think theese would fit quite nicely in a Necrarch list as well.

4. Could the Corpse Cart get another function in the Necrarch list? allowing it to be placed within a experiment unit, collecting ddamaged experiments for re-use etc... I think that would be a cool idea.

I think it is great that people work to keep the original Bloodline consept updated and expanded upon. Keep up the good work guys :thumbsup:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top