If you choose a nightmare, as per the stat changes the Blood Dragon automatically comes equipped with a lance and bard for the mount.
Blood Dragon Playtesting Thread
- Thread starter Disciple of Nagash
- Start date
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[mod]Initial Playtesting Review[/mod]
The below comments are a roundup of previous made comments. If a power or item is not noted below, it is either not been commented on, or it received positive comments. I have only noted the things which have been noted that need changing, or players have asked questions.
Main Comments:
- Does the ability to have a vampire Lord with such a high WS, combined with the armour really balance by just loosing one spell?
- Quicksilver combined with this Bloodline creates some very OP Heros, with the ability to have 5 attacks.
- Blood Dragons should be forced to issue and accept challenges.
- Is strength of steel combined with a lance or GW to make S8 over powered? Perhaps undercosted, or should not be combined with items such as GW?
- Horse Master – Possibly undercosted, as combined with a Lord in a unit of Blood Knights, makes them much more manoeuvrable for such little points.
- Unliving Legend seems OP. It means that Blood Knights have their one main weakness taken away, combined with Horse Master and some banners and it creates a very OP deathstar.
- The Blood Dragon army list is much more bland compared to the others. It has no new units, and means that most armies will be much the same. At least one unique unit needs creating.
- Error with weapon options – when vampire chooses Lance and Shield, he should also get barding for his mount
My Thoughts
I have thought about the comparison between the WS and loss of spell. I am still not sure on it. I would advocate more playtesting on this.
Remove Quicksilver altogether – either it isn’t fluffy (such as for Necrarchs) or it can lead to OP combos such as from Blood Dragons.
Agree with the challenge comment.
I don’t agree with Strength of Steel. Whilst some players noted that, others stated they felt it was ok. A one-off hit of S8 on charge doesn’t seem that bad to me, as it is only when the vampire charges.
Horse Master – I can see the point, however unsure how to fix as players state it is mainly the combination of this with a Lord and a Blood Knight unit that makes it OP. On a hero it is not as devastating. Perhaps look at either increasing the cost, or putting limits on the unit size it can effect?
Unliving Legend – After some thought I have to agree. It does make the Blood Knights too powerful, and can create truly horrible deathstars. I think we perhaps need to look at replacing this power, or amending it in such a way that it cannot be abused.
In regards to the army list, I do agree that it needs spicing up a little. At the moment it is very boring compared to the other lists.
I would suggest a more powerful unit of Black Knights. Kind of like the Drakenhof Guard that the Carsteins have, but for the Blood Dragons.
Also possibly a unit of “veteran” knights. They have travelled the world, learning all different styles and controlling their hunger. Something along the lines of:
Blood Knight stats
Cannot be joined by characters (reduce deathstar)
Can wield their weapons with different options in every round of combat, a bit like Wardancers.
Not frenzied
Pointed fairly.
Edit barding into armour options.
I have thought about the comparison between the WS and loss of spell. I am still not sure on it. I would advocate more playtesting on this.
Remove Quicksilver altogether – either it isn’t fluffy (such as for Necrarchs) or it can lead to OP combos such as from Blood Dragons.
Agree with the challenge comment.
I don’t agree with Strength of Steel. Whilst some players noted that, others stated they felt it was ok. A one-off hit of S8 on charge doesn’t seem that bad to me, as it is only when the vampire charges.
Horse Master – I can see the point, however unsure how to fix as players state it is mainly the combination of this with a Lord and a Blood Knight unit that makes it OP. On a hero it is not as devastating. Perhaps look at either increasing the cost, or putting limits on the unit size it can effect?
Unliving Legend – After some thought I have to agree. It does make the Blood Knights too powerful, and can create truly horrible deathstars. I think we perhaps need to look at replacing this power, or amending it in such a way that it cannot be abused.
In regards to the army list, I do agree that it needs spicing up a little. At the moment it is very boring compared to the other lists.
I would suggest a more powerful unit of Black Knights. Kind of like the Drakenhof Guard that the Carsteins have, but for the Blood Dragons.
Also possibly a unit of “veteran” knights. They have travelled the world, learning all different styles and controlling their hunger. Something along the lines of:
Blood Knight stats
Cannot be joined by characters (reduce deathstar)
Can wield their weapons with different options in every round of combat, a bit like Wardancers.
Not frenzied
Pointed fairly.
Edit barding into armour options.
Some idea's from the other thread about the Blood dragon army list.
-Lighter black knights (As core)
-Heavier black knights
-More equipment options for units
-Ws boost for some units
-A cavalry fromation, not as good as bret lance but better then the usual line.
-Another rare option
I think the list does need another rare option, and i'd like to see some cavalry in core (but would probably need to be limited). I think more equipment options for foot units would also be good.
-Lighter black knights (As core)
-Heavier black knights
-More equipment options for units
-Ws boost for some units
-A cavalry fromation, not as good as bret lance but better then the usual line.
-Another rare option
I think the list does need another rare option, and i'd like to see some cavalry in core (but would probably need to be limited). I think more equipment options for foot units would also be good.
I like the idea of the Black Knights being boosted in some way. These could be the knights that were elite, but were not good enough to be turned into vamps.
Looking at the wight stats - what boosts do you think would work.........how about making them more killy, and having one unit that can be upgraded to have the entire unit having a KB that works on a 5+?
Yes, I agree on giving some of the units more options.
What are the thoughts on my Veteran Blood Knights as a Rare?
Looking at the wight stats - what boosts do you think would work.........how about making them more killy, and having one unit that can be upgraded to have the entire unit having a KB that works on a 5+?
Yes, I agree on giving some of the units more options.
What are the thoughts on my Veteran Blood Knights as a Rare?
I think a unit of 'Veteran knights' would be good. Either Vampires, for which your idea would be work well, Lances and additional hand weapons 
(not at the same time of course).
Maybe a unit of powerful wraith cavalry as Rare, What happerns if you raise a fallen blooddragon back as a wight or similar? -If you can raise fallen Vampires I imagine it would be a very powerful unit (e.g killing blow 5+).
(not at the same time of course).Maybe a unit of powerful wraith cavalry as Rare, What happerns if you raise a fallen blooddragon back as a wight or similar? -If you can raise fallen Vampires I imagine it would be a very powerful unit (e.g killing blow 5+).
I think it would be good to have a very limited Vet Blood Knight Unit - basically Blood Knights as they should be without the damn frenzy. Limited in how many can be taken, and maybe even unit size.
I still like the idea of a more elite Black Knight unit, maybe even two more versions. One heavily armoured full plate version, one a nasty hitting 5+ KB unit?
I still like the idea of a more elite Black Knight unit, maybe even two more versions. One heavily armoured full plate version, one a nasty hitting 5+ KB unit?
How about we drop the frenzy of standard Blood knights for this list, then have a unit of very hard hitters for rare to make up for less powerful hitting (but more controlable) bloodknights as special. I think this could make blood knights more accepted as a special choice as well...as they are very powerful for a special choice anyway.
I think it would pe good if you could include 1 unit of unbarded black knights per skelly unit as core, and they wouldn't count towards core unless greater in number then 10.
I like the idea of powerful black knights but I don't think it would make sense that Blooddragons could raise more powerful wights then more magically able vampires.
I would also like to see all Bloodknight cavalry being given the option for full plate as an upgrade.
I think it would pe good if you could include 1 unit of unbarded black knights per skelly unit as core, and they wouldn't count towards core unless greater in number then 10.
I like the idea of powerful black knights but I don't think it would make sense that Blooddragons could raise more powerful wights then more magically able vampires.
I would also like to see all Bloodknight cavalry being given the option for full plate as an upgrade.
Do you drop the frenzy across the whole list for the Blood Knights? I can see that being a huge issue for most players, as they are very nasty as they are. Yes they might loose an attack, but then still hit harder than pretty much any other cav. I think they will be OP then.
Do you think that the lost attack balances the loss of frenzy?
The full plate I can see as an option, but I think it should only be available to some kind of elite unit, not all.
I like the idea of the Black Knights being in core, in the same way as the GG.
I would see the more powerful Black Knights, not being more magically powerful, but that the Blood Dragons are very selective and choose only the best warriors to being back as their army?
Do you think that the lost attack balances the loss of frenzy?
The full plate I can see as an option, but I think it should only be available to some kind of elite unit, not all.
I like the idea of the Black Knights being in core, in the same way as the GG.
I would see the more powerful Black Knights, not being more magically powerful, but that the Blood Dragons are very selective and choose only the best warriors to being back as their army?
Disciple of Nagash said:
They lose an attack from the horse as well so reduces them from 5 to 3 as a whole. It would put them only slightly better stat wise then chaos knights which are a special choice and arn't limited to 1 per 1000 points. Chaos knights can be give a mark of slannesh for very few points to make them immune to fear/terror/panic but can still flee if needs be so I think they'd be even in that field.
So our knights would gain a Str and lose an I (I think) and can't flee and don't have as may upgrade options as choas knights (marks)
Vengeance Crusader
Grave Guard
Hello all!
Just had a read through of the rules, and I have just made my 1st list with them.
I have a few 'first impression' ideas, if you will hear me out:
I really like the idea of having Black Knights as core- just like the old list.
Blademaster is rediclous- so much boosts in so many areas, and 100 pts!...I don't like this
I think this power should be replaced with something that gives the vampire 'Heroic Killing Blow'
for about...55pts??? 'Heart Render' would be a cool name I think!
This would be fluffy too- as did not the great Abhorash win ultimate glory by slaying a dragon?
Edit: Maybe change 'Blade Master' so that it instead gives you 'always strikes first' for 30 pts???
Anyway, other than that it all seems pretty cool,
i will use these rules in my next game, and see how things go!
Just had a read through of the rules, and I have just made my 1st list with them.
I have a few 'first impression' ideas, if you will hear me out:
I really like the idea of having Black Knights as core- just like the old list.
Blademaster is rediclous- so much boosts in so many areas, and 100 pts!...I don't like this
I think this power should be replaced with something that gives the vampire 'Heroic Killing Blow'
for about...55pts??? 'Heart Render' would be a cool name I think!
This would be fluffy too- as did not the great Abhorash win ultimate glory by slaying a dragon?
Edit: Maybe change 'Blade Master' so that it instead gives you 'always strikes first' for 30 pts???
Anyway, other than that it all seems pretty cool,
i will use these rules in my next game, and see how things go!