Boycott of GW Products (Previously I've had it...)

[Trevy the Great]

Okay, here's the deal.
I'll go on buying my models (I don't buy direct from GW anyway) and you can go on not buying your models. If your little boycott has any positive effects, I will happily admit that I was wrong and view the entire practice in a new light. If not, I will have been right and I will have my models.
Either way, I win.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Actually I had quite carefully read the many points made here. I don't disagree that there is a slim chance of this working. But do you offer an alternative? All I've seen so far boils down to:

Slim chance of working > Don't bother

If that is the attitude everyone takes is it any wonder it never works. You fail to understand, I am not saying me and a few other can make a difference by themselves. I am actually quite intelligent enough to comprehend that wouldn't work. What I am saying is that if a large number of people gave it a try, then it might work. It probably won't but at least we will have tried. Until you make the effort how can you say for certain it will not work? You can't. If enough people would stand up and just try it could make a difference.

However it is unfortunate that most people's perceptions are that if it is not a likely outcome in their favour, don't even try.

 

[Deep]

Actually if you refer to page one of this thread I already DID offer an alternative. I'm not usually one to downplay any idea if I can offer no better way of doing things. But I actually Moreso prefer the later idea of a petition, signed with real names, addresses, phone numbers instead of internet aliases that another member proposed. I feel that their idea has a better chance than mine of working and that mine has a better chance of yours of working.

But I can see your set on your course of action and I can respect you for that. I However will be abstaining from the little boycott until the petition comes around. Then I would happily sign it with my real name, address and even contact details. I wish you good luck on your endeavor.

 

[Lord Nelson]

I've been reading this thread and noticing that everyone's tempers have been pricked by this issue, and rightly so: the GW price increase effects threatens two areas near and dear to every gamer's heart - money and minis.

I won't weigh in on the efficacy or inefficacy of the boycott; both sides have been presented fairly well, and people can choose for themselves whether to buy or not until June.

What I will do is echo the earlier-made call to send complaints to GW via e-mail or mail. This is a quick, easy step that both boycotters and non-boycotters alike should be able to agree upon, and it provides both a chance to express their frustration as they see fit.

According to the GW site, here is the e-mail to their customer service:

orders@games-workshop.co.uk

Those wishing to write letters (always a more effective option) may do so to here:

Direct Sales
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS

For the US residents, try this address:

Games Workshop Customer Service
6711 Baymeadow Drive
Glen Burnie, MD 21060-6401
USA

Finally, if I may give some advice as someone with experience in political-corporate advocacy, allow me to suggest the following guidelines:

1) Handwritten notes are always more effective than typed, but they should be legible.

2) Avoid profanity and/or personal attacks: It's unprofessional and not likely to get your audience to sympathize with your viewpoint.

3) When possible, express how the activity you are upset about is effecting not just you but friends (i.e., your local gaming community)

4) Don't be afraid to start with a compliment: you will get more flies with honey than vinegar. (i.e. "I really like GW products but...")

5) Be firm. Give multiple reasons for your dissatisfaction.

Whether you're boycotting or not, there is NO excuse why you can't take five mins and write and letter. In the time it takes the primer to dry on your zombies unit, you can let your opinion be heard! Let these GW execs know what you think and why you feel so strongly.:mad2: Good luck!

 

[Servius]

Ok.. This is from GW sales...

I spoke with them today about it. And this is Store Direct Sales NOT the hotline..

Greatsword... Legit and Correct Price. Its not a typo. Heres their reasoning and from their mouth.. Im just the messenger the following ISNT my opinion or statement...

GW produces the highest quality plastics available. Yet, other manufacturers are beginning to produce plastics as well at higher cost and the market bears the cost. Our point is that We provided the highest quality product, and are offering the lowest prices currently. Other companies are edging in on our business with higher prices. So we are raising the price to a pricepoint that we feel the market will bear.

Personally, I think they are full of shit.. I can name many manufacturers that are LOWER prices than them and offer like or better quality miniatures. but regardless thats their word.

While the Archers are bearable as I only need one unit of 10 to replace my lousy militia models I will be buying them.. And may consider a Steam Tank as it is cheaper than the current model and I would rather have plastic than pewter.

Greatswords.. Ill be getting Pewter. 1: the models are better and 2: I want to get 2 units of 15, which in Pewter is 24 bucks less.. As I dont want commands.. If you think about it the price is very similar... It costs 45 dollars currently for 10 Greatswords with Command. Funny how nobody complained about the pewter... I really think in the end that it comes to this... they are just making a larger profit on their shit.. its not like its a real price hike.. they are just using the price of the pewters as a base for the new plastics. Personally I don't like it. But its the way it is..

The boycott idea will do little other than drop the income of the local area shops.. and if there is enough people doing it in a specific area... it could cause some independents to pack up and lock the doors...

 

[Willmark]

RE: I've had it...

I'll ask Servius on Rites of War. I'm only a moderator there, so I don't want to speak up for us.

I'll let Willmark know about this, as well as the WI and IL regional forums. They might not go for it, but I can at least inform them.

Personally, I'll go for it.

This really kills the idea of using the plastic greatswords for graveguard.

While loathing GWs pricing just as much as the next person I don't think this si going to work. Lets just say Serviius and I see eye-to-eye on this one.

Boycotts of this nature never work because we dont have enough of a voice in this, if you could get "everyone" to halt sales then it would work.

Also I wouldn't worry about Warhammer if GW goes away everyone, some company will buy it up.

 

[Servius]

well heres my point.. GW wont get hurt regardless.. They may royalty from Age or Reckoning which is rather substantial and really.. 2 months... GW can afford to take the loss in sales for 2 months.. Lets say you got 10% of the online community... thats probably about 10k people if your talking worldwide.. and that being conservative. GW will feel it.. But know that it will subside. Now who does this hurt.. The local GW store. Most Areas are independent stores. Home Businesses. Most are reputable and offer free or cheap playing space for the game. Many also run campaigns and such.. now. lets say you get those people.. as say 4 or 5 people in a very small area or a good 100 in a metro area are in on your imbargo of GW... what happens to the independent.. 2 months with a loss in sales.. I mean come on.. I know my local store is bearly making their goals to keep the store running and the owner has considered getting a day job just to pick up the slack... losing those potential sales could have people looking to pizza places to play. I just say this.. If you want to give GW a message... dont buy ANYTHING as far as GW product that YOU yourself dont think is worth the price.. If everyone does this.. its more likely to make them say "Hey, we are hearing that people arent buying X product. We are making Y margin on it. lets say we cut the MSRP and run with it and see what happens."Part of the problem is that people in this hobby tend to be in the early 20s and such or late teen years and have almost completely open income.. I mean they tend to really only have a car payment and maybe a credit card or 2.. I know... I was one of them.. I spent over 8k USD a year for about 7 years at my local game store.. Since then I have gotten Married, had a child, and the like.. I have maybe spent 100 dollars there this year total. It has hit them hard... as there are quite a few cases like me in my area. and Losing an 8k that you pretty much could bet on getting... thats big in a niche market like Hobby stores who expect to make maybe 40k a year in liquid profit.

I say in ending.. Do what you want.. But, look beyond your shoes and look at the big picture...

 

[Vic]

Tbh I really like the idea, but my situation is pretty much the same as the one Servius mentioned.

Here in Bulgaria, Warhammer (both Fantasy and 40k) is played in a single gaming club here in Sofia. The community is so small and fragile (10-15 regulars that you can play with no matter when you come, and probably another good 30 players that come from time to time, prooly once per moth though) that 2 months of not buying stuff there it would be gone. They barely manage to keep up with close to no profit, but they like the game and they're friends with all the people so that's pretty much the only reason the club is still alive.

And we really really don't want this. The owner is just great - 9 month campaigns constantly, 2 tournaments every month, free dices, templates, glue, paints, brushes while you're there, so we definitely don't want to close up the community to the bare minimum, buying cheap stuff off online stores and occasionally playing a game or two at our homes.

So basically I'm out of the boycott, but I'll definitely help in any way possible (atm I convinced the store owner to write a concern letter to our local GW representative about his clients being unhappy with the expensive prices)

 

[Bug16]

So the result is do nothing? I know fully well that it may not have an impact, but then again it may do. My argument is that by doing nothing, then of course nothing will ever change.

Yes we may not hot everyone, but if a lot of forums got involved it might make an impact. Yes of course we would advise GW why there is a boycott, otherwise why bother?

I personally would want to at least try and fail, rather that just do nothing.

Maybe it's just me being an old fart but similar things have happened a number of times in the past with GW and the only thing that has changed is that prices have continued to go up at an exponential rate.

I remember people threatening to quit the hobby and stop buying GW when the original box of 8 metal terminators were released for £15, which was a shocking price for 1989/90. Actually I remember people throwing their arms in the air when figures went from 50p to 60p each.

As I said in my earlier post, I've been effectively boycotting them for years, bar one or two purchases that I felt were good value (DE CoK's and Chaos Knights, in particular).

Either way good luck with it.

---

Please note I'm not shooting the messenger with the below, just commenting on GW's comments!

GW produces the highest quality plastics available.

Very debatable.

Yet, other manufacturers are beginning to produce plastics as well at higher cost and the market bears the cost.

"At higher cost"? :| Yeah 30 Imperial Roman Legionaries for £18 is far higher than £25 for 10 blokes carrying a big sword.

Our point is that We provided the highest quality product, and are offering the lowest prices currently.

:rofl2: I'd love to see them prove that one. There was discussion elsewhere (I think over on TMP) that GW staff were spouting quite a lot of crap in store on how their figures were the cheapest and how GW actually invented wargaming (seriously). If they're starting on this again then I'm more than happy to report them to trading standards (UK based) for further investigation.

Personally, I think they are full of shit.. I can name many manufacturers that are LOWER prices than them and offer like or better quality miniatures. but regardless thats their word.

Absolutely. They just rely on saying this mantra of "GW is best, GW is best" and hoping people believe it because they're new to wargaming and don't know any different. For the most part it works.

 

[Arion]

An above point set me thinking. 10,000 players boycotting for 2 months is not that much by GW standards, as said above. What about 10,000 full length intelligent letters of complaint. A FAR greater impact.

 

[Zephyr]

Hmm the letters are a good idea. I think it's better getting heard than a silent protest.
I've been in the hobby for over 15 years and I've seen the prices go up and up but never down on anything. There are always loads of people complaining but never actually doing anything which leads us to today with already ridiculous prices going even higher.
If it wasn't for tournament rules about using GW models I would have stopped buying the miniatures long ago and only use the rules.

 

[Trevy the Great]

Letters, yes. I like this idea!
To the secretary!

 

[S'tan]

I have a feeling GW's trashcans are going to be filled with trash paper. As good as it sounds on paper (yeah pun blah blah, whatever), writting angry letters and simultaniously buying GW products is kindda like complaining about junk food in McDonalds while ordering a Big Mac super menu.

How about both? A boycott (for what it's worth) and simultaniously telling what it's about? I for one think it won't matter much either way but as DoN said and I'm totally with him on this one, if there's a 1% chance of succeding, it's still possible. The chance is obviously lower then that but if you don't think positive, you'll never accomplish anything.

So rant on forums, rant to GW on mail and good olde letters, speak your mind. Prices go up, surely, but this does seem to be going out of hand and GW's attitude towards customers is... I think flawed is the kindest word I can use. I'd go on and on now about PP but I won't because that's another story. The point is that PP has shown us things CAN be better.


Afterthought: With the economic crisis at our doorstep (I'm from central Europe, I suppose American, British and some other blokes feel it's teeth already), GW sales will probably drop considerably anyways and a boycott itself, even if it reached huge proportions wouldn't really be noticed as it would probably be blamed on the crisis.

 

[JFSebastien]

I think GW should move into politics with the amount of BS they spin.
If they didn't have such bloated overheads and stuck to what they are supposed to be producing (high quality miniatures foremost and then functional, balanced rules to use them by) then they could actually compete with the various companies that have begun to produce hard plastics themselves. I'd like to hear exactly which company (considering no other miniature company or systems exists according to GW's mentality) charges £25 for 10 models? All the companies currently releasing hard-plastics (under the same economic conditions as GW are suffering in regards to materials, mold costs and recession) put GW prices to shame. They might not have the same quality yet (totally not the case with Perry's, they were the best damn sculptors GW ever had and still are top of their game) and be producing historicals that might not proxy that well for GW games, but given time they will be producing suitable models that match GW quality (over hyped in my opinion) and can be used for Warhammer.

I couldn't comment on whether a Boycott would work, but frankly i think each gamer should react as they see fit. I will write a letter myself and would sign a petition with my actual name should one pass my way. A temporary boycott doesn't seem much of a threat to GW by its very nature, they know it will pass because everyone is still hooked on the product. I would say a flatout boycott (quit GW or don't buy anything new) or a product boycott (anything that gets raised to be inline with the GS you never, ever buy) work better.

I felt sad when i first read about the GS pricing etc, but i think that people should look after their own conscience and react accordingly.
I will just invest in the competition.
Companies such as Warlord are running preorder systems whereby you can influence what models are produced. Go spend that £25 on getting alternative Renaissance plastics produced for your Empire. I think its a much more positive and powerful way of fighting GW. The more rivals GW has, the more they will have to price themselves sensibly to compete and the higher quality their product will actually have to be (not just BS to justify a price). If another comapny can produce high quality plastics that undercut GW then they get my money. If i can't go to toutnaments/play in the store, then so be it. I'd prefer to be able to afford an army in the first place to play with friends than buy into GW any more.

 

[S'tan]

well heres my point.. GW wont get hurt regardless.. They may royalty from Age or Reckoning which is rather substantial and really.. 2 months... GW can afford to take the loss in sales for 2 months.. Lets say you got 10% of the online community... thats probably about 10k people if your talking worldwide.. and that being conservative. GW will feel it.. But know that it will subside. Now who does this hurt.. The local GW store. Most Areas are independent stores. Home Businesses. Most are reputable and offer free or cheap playing space for the game. Many also run campaigns and such.. now. lets say you get those people.. as say 4 or 5 people in a very small area or a good 100 in a metro area are in on your imbargo of GW... what happens to the independent.. 2 months with a loss in sales.. I mean come on.. I know my local store is bearly making their goals to keep the store running and the owner has considered getting a day job just to pick up the slack... losing those potential sales could have people looking to pizza places to play. I just say this.. If you want to give GW a message... dont buy ANYTHING as far as GW product that YOU yourself dont think is worth the price.. If everyone does this.. its more likely to make them say "Hey, we are hearing that people arent buying X product. We are making Y margin on it. lets say we cut the MSRP and run with it and see what happens."Part of the problem is that people in this hobby tend to be in the early 20s and such or late teen years and have almost completely open income.. I mean they tend to really only have a car payment and maybe a credit card or 2.. I know... I was one of them.. I spent over 8k USD a year for about 7 years at my local game store.. Since then I have gotten Married, had a child, and the like.. I have maybe spent 100 dollars there this year total. It has hit them hard... as there are quite a few cases like me in my area. and Losing an 8k that you pretty much could bet on getting... thats big in a niche market like Hobby stores who expect to make maybe 40k a year in liquid profit.

I say in ending.. Do what you want.. But, look beyond your shoes and look at the big picture...

Double post but I've noticed this only now.

This is the kindda crap we're getting at our local gaming store. ''If you'll order over Maelstrom we're gonna go out of business and you'll have nowhere to play'' and so on. You know what? I love playing there and I love the place itself. Sometimes we just go there, smoke a cigarette or a joint, talk a lot of smack and generaly have a great time.

But that's not the point. What they're really saying is that we should spend more money that we've had to to keep them in business. What kindda attitude is that?! I'm buying stuff from a store because I need it, not because I want the store to be there the next time I need provisions. The store is there because of us, the consumers not the other way around. And if you can get stuff 20%-30% cheaper somewhere else, do you really want to pay 20%-30% more just so the store is there? You can play at home, smoke weed in the forest (which is a great gaming area btw) and have just as good a time.

And all that projects to GW. A good example for that is Necromunda. Nothing new save for a few minis was released for a years. It's still a great game (probably because it wasn't supported long enough to be totally ruined like some other GW games we know *hint* 40k *hint*), people still play it, invent new stuff instead of GW and the game is freaking awesome. If GW goes to hell (which it won't), the same would happen to 40k and Fantasy. GW doesn't own us or the market, they just sell us the minis and suggest on how to use them and thinking wargaming will end with them is stupid.

Sorry for OT


S'tan

 

[Trevy the Great]

But what if we don't want to smoke weed?

 

[ironlord]

Companies such as Warlord are running preorder systems whereby you can influence what models are produced. Go spend that £25 on getting alternative Renaissance plastics produced for your Empire. I think its a much more positive and powerful way of fighting GW. The more rivals GW has, the more they will have to price themselves sensibly to compete and the higher quality their product will actually have to be (not just BS to justify a price). If another comapny can produce high quality plastics that undercut GW then they get my money. If i can't go to toutnaments/play in the store, then so be it. I'd prefer to be able to afford an army in the first place to play with friends than buy into GW any more.

You raise a very good point there
supporting the rivals would force GW to adjust the price or quality of minis to beat those rivals

by the way, i thought that the CEO of GW was supposed to be a gamer?
what happened with that?

 

[Bug16]

by the way, i thought that the CEO of GW was supposed to be a gamer?
what happened with that?

He finds rolling around naked in a mountain of £100 notes far more fun?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Some very good points on both sides.

As I've said early - I appreciate that a boycott will probably not work, but I think we should do something.

If that means a petition, writing a letter etc then fine. What does wind me up is when people just say "There's not point doing anything". That kind of attitude definitely will not improve anything.

I personally will instead make sure I either shop from other companies, or look for 2nd hand off Ebay.

If there is any boycott, petition etc it will have my full support.

 

[Master Vampire]

I just think that if you're going to boycott at all, make it half a year, or a year!

There's enough stuff you can find on Ebay or discount websites. Even other companies' stuff might be appealing to you.

And as I wrote, a 2 month boycott won't be a problem for me, as I won't buy anything at all in the next 2 months, and that's for certain!

 

[Trevy the Great]

Okay, let me get one thing straight:
Are we planning a boycott on all Games Workshop products, period, no GW minis?
Or
Are we planning a boycott of all Games Workshop products bought directly from Games Workshop (as in, I go to the website, click 'add to cart'...)?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Personally I would have thought it would be anything that would directly or indirectly affect GW sales. So buying GW products off a different retailer is pointless as the retailer still purchases it from GW.

However buying 2nd off Ebay, especially older models would be fine, as they would have been bought a while ago and would not affect current sales.

 

[Trevy the Great]

Okay, never mind, still no.

 

[SethDrallitoc]

RE: I've had it...

wont a boycot push sales down, pushing profits down and therefor increasing the prices further?

True but it does the same for raising them too much. They have to take a middleground price for their miniatures. You have to stay above production costs.

I think the problem now is the economic recession, coupled with way too high costs for transportation, management, development and rent for their shops.

In my opinion, they should cut development and rental costs. Just close some shops, for gods sake!

I think you will find they are. I believe that 4 stores in my area have closed already.

They are skimping on the cost of their book binding process (I don't know about anyone else out there but I have certainly noticed that army books are falling apart at an alarming rate).

Even the amount of pages in the books is ridiculously cut.

The closing down of the bits services.

Cutbacks are being made on the in-store painting supplies.

Store opening hours have been reduced.

Development can not be slowed or halted since new models are the best way to make money. Thanks to the "Oooh Shiny" attitude.

The company is in dire economic need. A boycott of a couple of months will probably do more harm than good. You might get some great deals on products as they go bust.


They are not doing this out of greed. Sure there are other things that they could be doing to reduce the cost to the customer. But put yourself in their shoes for a second. You want to lay off employees? (which would be costly!)Take pay cuts? (would you be willing to suffer that?)

There have to be better ways to bring GW out of this slump.

Fund raising events and maybe creating a scheme where you can get discounts on products if you encourage a friend to start playing. In fact maybe that's what you should do instead. Everyone bring one new person to the hobby. Generate some new revenue. It's the only way forward.

Why am I always the one who defends them huh?

You know what.... Never mind... I don't even want to get involved....

 

[N1AK]

RE: I've had it...

Development can not be slowed or halted since new models are the best way to make money. Thanks to the "Oooh Shiny" attitude.

Fortunately, I don't think GW are foolish enough to consider stopping product development. New releases are one of their major revenue generators among established customers. Personally I over the last year or so I have done Vampire Counts, Space Marines, Warriors of Chaos and am about to expand my Imperial Guard on the back of new releases. The majority of players I know tend to start armies that are newly released, partly because of the buzz and partly because of the new models.

The people who complain about new developments and models 'in general' never seem to complain about anything once it is released. Does anyone really wish instead of a VC release we had:

• The same old unbalanced army book
• No new plastic Grave Guard
• No new plastic Ghouls
• No rules for Wraith & banshee units
• No Blood Knights
• No Corpse Carts