Coven Throne Tactica

[Corien Sumatris]

I'll work on a 3,000pt No Gran Army list (That tends to be the standard around my shop). I'll see what I can come up with and see if you like it!

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Sorry for the double post, Didn't feel like editing the first to add an army list.

Lords

Vampire Lord (Standard Blender)
Red Thirst
Quickblood
Ogre Blade
Tal of Preservation
Heavy Armor
Enchanted Sheild
OTS
Lore of Vamps
406

Master Necro
Level 4
Dispell Scroll
Lor of Death
225

Heroes

Vampire
Charmed Sheild
Sword of Anti Heroes
Quickblood
Coven Throne
Tal of Protection
Lore of Vamps
419

Core
26 Zombies
Banner and Musician
88

26 Zombies
Banner and Musician
88

26 Zombies
Banner and Musician
88

2 X 5 Wolves
40 Each

40 Crypt Ghouls
Ghast
410

Special

6 Crypt Horrors
Crypt Haunter
238

5 Hex Wraiths

5 Hex Wraiths

2 FelBats

2 FelBats

Spirit Host

Spirit Host

Spirit Host

Rare

Terror Gheist

Terror Gheist

I would drop the lord in the ghouls, the necro in a zombie block, and have the Throne support the Crypt Horrors. The Ghouls should do just fine with the lord and the Horrors with the Throne should be able to stomp most things into the dirt. Use the necro to pop champs (you don't want your throne getting sucked into a worthless challenge), and to lower leadership so that they either fail fear or get yelled at better. With the Sword of Anti Heroes do not pop characters in units that you want the throne in combat with but snipe the ones that the ghouls and the lord will be in combat with. If they have cannons or something that can hurt the throne then now they are forced to either shoot the throne or the TG's, which either way they're going to be leaving something that they won't want to deal with.

A lot of people are going to say go with AoDM and a better ward, But I'm a fan of killing stuff with my big model, which a good weapon and quickblood will do very well. I like Quickblood over Red Fury for a hero, Rerolling hits is good. You still have the charmed sheild so don't get close to bows (they force you to pop the 2+ ignore the hit) and you still have good cannon defense. Then they will be even more hard up as they've wasted a cannon ball and you still have 3 big beasties on the feild.

 

[RarerMonsters]

This brings me to my point: could you post your list and some strategic advice on how you plan your units should interact? If you don't want to post it maybe you could give some advice on what units would be good to have.

Thanks! I wanted to use the CT since I started VC bc of the great model. But the general bad opinion on it always kept me from buying it...

Coven (Vampire Counts) - 2,497 points



Lords
Isadora Samaniego (Vampire Lord) (538)
Heavy Armor, Shield
Level 4
Barded Nightmare
Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Other Trickster's Shard


Heroes
Sisters Three (Vampire on Coven Thron) (459)
Dragon Helm, Dawnstone
Lance, Heavy Armor, Shield
Lore of Death
Battle Standard Bearer

Necromancer (105)
Rod of Flaming Death

Cairn Wraith (60)

Core
5 Dire Wolves (40)
5 Dire Wolves (40)
33 Skeleton Warriors (195)
FC
35 Crypt Ghouls (360)
Crypt Ghast

Special
1 Spirit Host (45)
1 Spirit Host (45)
1 Spirit Host (45)
10 Black Knights (340)
FC; Banner of the Barrows
Skeletal Steeds


Rare

Terrorgheist (225)


So, this is the list I took to the most recent tourney. The main theory is that I could run a pretty standard upper tier VC list and still comp well by fitting in the Coven Throne and taking RoFD instead of the Dispel Scroll (the latter probably being something of a mistake)

In terms of pieces working together. I usually run the VL/Black Knights about as far upfield as I can while staying where my opponent would need a charge roll of 11 or higher to reach me. I then march my Terrorgheist the full 20, trying my hardest to put him where he can get off one solid scream at a high priority target. My general thinking is that the Gheist is a missile: he lacks the defenses to keep him alive, my only concern is taking down a cav block, monster, or moncav before he starts soaking up enemy fire. If none are available, I hold him a bit farther back to clear out a redirector.
The Coven throne rides behind the BK bus' flank, ready to counter charge and staying in Inspiring Presence for Spirit Leech sniping.
During the magic phase, I prioritize trying to get a vanhels to move the gheist behind enemy lines.
Other important spells are Raise Dead (best spell in the lore, bar none), invocation if the gheist has taken wounds, or RoFD/Spirit Leech if my opponent burn through his dispel pool early.
Skeles are your standard denial bus. I keep him just far enough back that RoFD can reach its best target and maybe farther if I needed him to pick up a LoV spell my VL failed to get.
Ghouls I run conservatively with since S3 Poisons excel at some combats but are worthless elsewhere. (Death by armor save is a sucker's game) If my opponent has a monster with an armor save worse than 4+, they'll see if they can get in combat with it early. Otherwise, they stay somewhere back field and try to draw my opponent into going after my most vulnerable point-sink, with Dire wolves and Spirit Hosts redirecting until I can hopefully turn the battle to my favor.

As for the Coven Throne, I make use of its great movement and swiftstride to go after a good target early to clear the field of supporting charges for my VL.
She excels at dropping enemy chariots or low S infantry blocks. Be wary of heroes though, since, and I'll put this in caps so you don't miss it YOUR COVEN THRONE CANNOT DENY CHALLENGES IF THE RIDER IS ALIVE.

Your Throne, along with your BK block, give you two strong threat vectors, which greatly improves your ability to control the flow of positioning in the area of your main engagement.

Once you've broken a unit or two and taken control of an enemy flank, send in your cavalry and chariot to start wrecking face in your enemy's freely exposed army and send in the ghouls if they try to reform to protect their flank.

And, as always, once you're in combat throw away all of this and adapt to what happens in the actual game.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

I've always loved this thing, and my results even against cannon heavy armies have been good. With good target saturation it just always seems to get to where I want it. And yes, I agree, Battle of Wills is not the point of this ride. Sure you can try it, but I just have better results using it as a beat stick.

 

[Kindred]

I've used the Throne a few times before and it's always worked like a charm, just flank something with it and have fun! The Battle of Wills usually goes pretty well for me, I like to give my vamp rider Dark Majesty for a little edge, then Doom and Darkness when I have it for a sure bet. Also, many opponents wont expect it to have spectral movement, the look on their face when you Danse Macabre it through a mountain and into their gunlines flank is priceless.

 

[eggsPR]

Hmmm.... a coven throne with no ward save on 2 wound rider that could die to a single cannonball on T1, or a unit of 12 Crypt Horrors consisting of 36 T5 wounds with 5+ regen for the same points...

Tough call

I know I know, it's the Coven throne tactica thread... I apologize for trolling. I should be helping the tactics of a Coven throne... cough cough.... charmed shield ALWAYS... couch oucgh

 

[excessiveswagger]

You can't put a price on awesomeness. When I use greenskins I always end up using Giants. Jumping up and down and stuffing people down pants is far too entertaining to even think about cost effectiveness

 

[Corien Sumatris]

I would have to agree with Eggspr, although the throne can have it's uses. Is it the best thing in the army? not by far although it can be worth it's points!

 

[aussie]

Personally the vamp hero is there for the ride, it is the coven that you want to do the disruption, 4 up ward on a 5 wound chariot is great.

 

[eggsPR]

If you kill the 2-wound rider, does the coven throne remain on the table, unmounted so to speak?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Yeah it is a chariot

 

[Velmates]

If you kill the 2-wound rider, does the coven throne remain on the table, unmounted so to speak?

Yes, BRB p. 105: "A chariot mount follows the rules for ridden monsters, save for the fact that a chariot does not need to take a Monster Reaction test if the character is slain."

 

[eggsPR]

Hmmm... so in regular Warhammer, if you kill the rider but not the mount (or Coven Throne in this case), are you awarded any VPs?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Nope.... Aw the ETC is so silly :lol:

 

[eggsPR]

Haha no in ETC it's the same way. A dreadlord on a black dragon can die, though if the dragon lives you get 0 VPs (aside from the 100 for killing the general). I didn't know if that was an ETC rule or a WHFB rule.

Ok well in that case the CV looks SLIGHTLY better over my original assessment. Though I wouldn't try and kit out that rider, aside from Charmed Shield and Obsidian Amulet of course.

 

[aussie]

The -1 ld is good but the rider for me is in for the ride of his life bait like Steve beathime and I did butcher his name on the nuke,

 

[RarerMonsters]

Hmmm.... a coven throne with no ward save on 2 wound rider that could die to a single cannonball on T1, or a unit of 12 Crypt Horrors consisting of 36 T5 wounds with 5+ regen for the same points...

Tough call

I know I know, it's the Coven throne tactica thread... I apologize for trolling. I should be helping the tactics of a Coven throne... cough cough.... charmed shield ALWAYS... couch oucgh

Coven Throne's faster, has a smaller footprint, carries a lvl 1 death sniper, and puts out more offensive power that hits first.

And although I know it doesn't matter in the ETC, it nets you some composition points because no, it ISN'T an optimal choice.

At my most recent tourney, I took my coven throne to 3rd for generalship out of over 100 because I went 4-1 while running what people consider a fluff concession. I mean, to a certain degree this is all about "how can we make use of a cool but lousy choice", but remember that, in the American scene, doing that is a scoring category.


And as for charmed shield... well, since my 4+ ward talisman is necessarily occupied elsewhere I'm deeply unsure about it. Armies with cannons will, for the most part, have BS shooting, which means that if they're at all careful they can negate it before shooting their cannon.

And yes, for 5 points it probably seems mandatory, but if I need to drop it to get the 2+ rerollable for 35 points or the 4+ ward save, I feel justified doing so.

Furthermore, the rider can die. If the chariot survives, it can still ride on to smash face and deny points.

 

[eggsPR]

Duly noted

Just keep that CV behind some dogs so BS3-4 shooting will need 7s or 8s to hit... Problem solved

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

-4 to shooting using dogs eggy?
How lol

If they want to shoot my covern with bs shooting before cannon good then that unit has a chance to start hitting it self.

 

[bigbadbat]

Large targets don't get cover.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

Good thread, lots of interesting points brought up here. And yes I see you can lose the vamp and still be combat-effective, but idk if I'd like my thrall getting blown off before seeing a fight, or being protected but doing less damage in combat. I guess that's the point of hero class characters anyway though, not enough points allowance to make them a lord lol.

But then again, if my vamp gets blown off, I still have a beast-chariot, plus the terrorgheists/MEs he wasn't aiming at! So even if you don't like seeing your heroes die, it's probably the best thing to get killed by cannon fire

 

[RarerMonsters]

Duly noted

Just keep that CV behind some dogs so BS3-4 shooting will need 7s or 8s to hit... Problem solved

No he won't. You will NEVER win battle of wills. Even if you're LD 10 and they're 7 you still have to beat their die roll by 3.

And yes, I get why it's feasibly possible and sure maybe you got all your debuffs in place, but if your strategy relies on really fortuitous dice than you've already lost the game.

 

[Martin Q Blank]

Good thread! Now I just need a TG and a CT. reading this has made me want them both!

 

[Fayzer0]

Hi
I am thinking of running this in my first VC game next week - does a Vamp hero/Lord rider benefit from the 4+ ward save if singled out either by shooting or in combat?

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Nope, characters on chariots don't benefit from the given ward save what-so-ever. lame!