Dealing with 8th edition High Elves

[Tawg]

I apologise if i'm being rude, but are there any tips to deal with them?

Lol, the game I played was a complete farce; My friend took a unit of 1+ AS vs me with pure core, nothing over Str4, it was not a fun game. I did learn that it's the HE player's responsibility to keep their Phoenixes safe though, Stactic CR can really hurt them since they aren't stubborn, kinda easy to make them flake, although you may not be able to chase them down (Swift Stride and all).

Try this Link, if it works as intended, then that's another forum user here on CN (Aki?)'s YouTube channel. His latest two battle reports (51 & 50) are against the HE, they are a bit of time, but cover the entire game. It's not against VC, but you might stand to see how a game or two plays out against the HEs.

I know they die easy. I know they have ward saves out the ass because they.. die easy. I know they require quite a bit of finesse and often will use multiple smaller units in conjunction rather than larger "Horded" type units. They have magic arrows now, so Ethereals may be vulnerable against them, they can't just expect to soak MMs now. I dunno, you'll have to pick your battles, preferably while cutting off their support with chaff/Tar-pits most likely. Our characters are better for the most part, but theirs will be doing heinous things with magic.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Walk Between Worlds turns the unit Ethereal and gives them a 10" move that happens like it was the remaining moves subphase. So Fly 20", then 10" through any terrain, for example.

 

[bigbadbat]

20" if you boost cast. Now... If you're using a dragon, I hope to high hell that you're using terrain or staying out of sight arcs.
If you've done this, even if you fail to cast or it gets dispelled, the dragon is relatively safe.
Now if you do get that spell off...

 

[HERO]

Do you guys realize that White Lions are T3 5+ in close combat vs. mundane attacks? If that doesn't ring some bells I don't know what will.

I bet if you throw a big block of garbage at them you'll be surprised at the results. (Skeleton Warriors for example)

 

[Tomfoolery]

I'm not really concerned about Dragon banners or Phoenixs or even Phoenix Guard personally. What bothers me the most is Chariot units and Silver Helms as core.....


but that's just me.

 

[HERO]

I'm not really concerned about Dragon banners or Phoenixs or even Phoenix Guard personally. What bothers me the most is Chariot units and Silver Helms as core.....


but that's just me.

There are no Chariots core.

Silver Helms are nice though! Models suck though.

 

[Tawg]

I'm not really concerned about Dragon banners or Phoenixs or even Phoenix Guard personally. What bothers me the most is Chariot units and Silver Helms as core.....


but that's just me.

There are no Chariots core.

Silver Helms are nice though! Models suck though.

I played a small (1,250pts) game against my friend who has the new HE, to try out my new WoC, which I have x2 Battalion of.. He is rather interested in an "All mounted" army, so as it were he took a unit of the Silver Helms + lord caster & Hero BSB all in the same unit..

..while I had all core choice with like, Str 4 tops, and only one nearly bare hero proxied.

It was a stupid slaughter of a game, I couldn't even touch his prissy elves with their what, 2+ AS? Plus his caster was giving him around 4-5++ on top of that? Even S4 v T3 doesn't help when they are just shrugging everything off =/

It was a really retarded match; But I learned that the Ward Save from their Lore Attribute is only until next caster's phase, and the Phoenixes are kinda easy to break in combat vs Static CR, although not so easy to run down.. I also learned that if someone takes a level 4 lord choice vs a level 1 hero for magic, you might as well punch them in the damn face!

 

[Abhorash.]

I apologise if i'm being rude, but are there any tips to deal with them?

Sorry this thread got off track. Here are some basic tips I would advise.

1. Take large units of infantry; so after he does his damage you can step up and kill (probably) just as many. Big blocks of Grave Guard and Ghouls eat through elves. Also you will always want Banner of the Barrows on Grave Guard. It effectively makes Grave Guard 6 weapon skill. At least thats how I like to look at it.

2. Try and take some fast chaff to deal with his eagles and reavers. A couple Spirit host bases to interfere with him and some standard dogs to mess with his eagles. Gaze of Nagash is always a reliable option to crispen up some eagle meat.

3. Which brings me to point 3. He will have many arrows coming at you. Nothing to fear too greatly; But I would advise some fast Hammer units like Vargheists, Hexwraiths, or even Black Knights with a character to run down his flanks and clear out archers and bolt throwers. Once you clear out all of his shooty units, you can bring the pain in close combat with all your units safely maneuvering about the board. Also, be wise with your close combat fights. Dont just throw 21 ghouls at a big unit of phoenix guard, they will lose. Try and have multiple charges, most likely after you clear his back units.

4. Stay on top of his magic. In my opinion we have better chances at dominating the magic phase; and I also think we have a better lore. Make sure your units are being healed, and try to get off Vanhels Dans Macabre quite a bit as the re-rolls on pretty much any of our units will mean many elves will die. Maybe take Book of Arkhan.

5. If you fear his Phoenix's, consider Terrorgheists and play defensively with them. If he has a fire phoenix hes going to be flying over your units, and a frost phoenix will want to see combat. Once they get close enough a couple rounds of screams should bring it down. And once the phoenixes are dead, reference steps 1 and 4

6. And ultimately, if you think he will have a deathstar unit with the Banner of the World Dragon, create a blender lord with a lance, Red Fury, Quickblood, and some other nice defensive items. This way you do not have magical attacks, and you can theoretically kill 10 elves per turn just with him. Put him in a unit of Black knights and bring the pain on that unit. However, Elves are not pansies in combat, offensively speaking. Be careful for large numbers of Lions or (maybe) Swordmasters. They can still hurt pretty bad.

If it boosts your morale, I would consider Vampire Counts a great army against High Elves. Sure you can always lose, but I think we have multiple good options to deal with all of their threats. Good Luck man!

 

[Tomfoolery]

I'm not really concerned about Dragon banners or Phoenixs or even Phoenix Guard personally. What bothers me the most is Chariot units and Silver Helms as core.....


but that's just me.

There are no Chariots core.

Silver Helms are nice though! Models suck though.

I know. I said Chariot units and Silver Helm core.

 

[eggsPR]

I played 2400 against 28 white lions with dragon banner, lvl 4 shadow with hoeth, crown of command elf lord on horse with 1+ rerollable AS and sword of anti-heros, 4 bolt throwers, flame phoenix, 6 sisters, bunch of archers and reavers...

16-4 to VC... the white lions got 64 points worth of bats :devil2:

New High Elves are not that scary... defo not top tier material.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

ThAnk you eggy

 

[bigbadbat]

What few have learned, but I saw immediately after reading the book, is that the WL horde is done. They are now relegated to the countercharge role 12-14 strong. Their points per wound are on par with Spearmen. SM, though are definitely usable in larger groups. Roles have reversed. The bolt thrower and Swordmasters are at the top of the points per wound curve in the HE book.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Yeah I fought the WL horde yesterday once with CD and once with Beasts. Both times it took just one round of failed dice and I just tore him to pieces. Extra ranks do not make up for the rerolls

 

[Abhorash.]

I would almost say taking 21-24 Swordmasters with the BoTWD could be better. Again though no re-rolls really hurts; but at least 24 Swords would have 32 strength 5 attacks. With the banner and a mage they'd be somewhat resilient.

Edit: add a big unit of Phoenix Guard with a Loremaster for another very resilient unit.

 

[Melle]

Silver Helms are nice though! Models suck though.

im so glad i still have the old 5th (4th?)ed silverhelms and steeds along with the first dragon princes. slowly building elites and rares up from metal models only. Although more static i kinda like them all better (except new PG's that are stunning)

my skaven 'friend' texted me yesterday. ..this is my new main army, HE. toting a PG with botw, lvl 4 high with book, lvl 2 high support with scroll. maiden hero with reaver and pot of str, lotherns, reavers and archers as core, frozen chicken, 7 sisters. a skycutter with bolter.
will be interesting to meet. though my zombiedragon lord might be replaced for something else. ..

 

[Swaiper]

About Sisters of Averlorn, its scary how fast they disassemble a ME.... just saying...

I think they are one of the best units HE has along with PGs and the Lore Master.

 

[Yorga]

I played 2400 against 28 white lions with dragon banner, lvl 4 shadow with hoeth, crown of command elf lord on horse with 1+ rerollable AS and sword of anti-heros, 4 bolt throwers, flame phoenix, 6 sisters, bunch of archers and reavers...

16-4 to VC... the white lions got 64 points worth of bats :devil2:

New High Elves are not that scary... defo not top tier material.

Your opponent will figure out the proper synergy and likely give you a real challenge next time. You people need to remember these High Elf players have to find a whole new way of playing like we did when our 8th book came out. We couldn't simply rely on the whole "Ghoul-Horde I win tactic" anymore.

 

[Abhorash.]

I don't care how much more reputable Johnny and eggspr are than myself; I completely agree with what Yorga said. High elf players are still finding their niche, and I would not cast them to the wolves so quickly. Plus that list that you faced eggspr, is not good. Or at least their are more powerful things he could have fielded.

Edit: I foresee many players coming to fear 38 Phoenix Guard with a mage and a BSB. White Lions and Swordmasters' roles are now small, elite, punch units. Phoenix guard in horde formation are going to be the new, and quite powerful thing.

 

[eggsPR]

Me, reputable?? Lol that started my day with a chuckle

The list also had a BSB with Reaver Bow and Strength Potion.

Ehhh... Losing those rerolls with GWs really REALLY hurt SMs and WLs. I keep telling our resident HE player SMs may be back, but he loves his S6.

Yeah Phoenix Guard could be good, gotta give them the razor standard in today's game, though.

Remember, I play ETC comped Warhammer, so max PG with razor standard is a unit of like 25 models. So my feelings on HE (being all mid tier, soft and squishy) are based off not doing silly stuff like throwing 6 PD at spells and having unlimited magic phases. Hell, with the book and banner, HE can't even have a dispel scroll under ETC comp. Why? Bc it makes things FAIR lol!

Lastly, I played him with an ETC list I've been using for well over 30 games... I can deploy my list in my sleep, and I know exactly what it can and cannot handle.

 

[The Sun King]

You are reputable Eggie - I respect your opinion very much - but mostly on stuff that counts for both uncomped and comped warhammer. I mean I cannot really apply your feelings of the HE with that sort of comp to my own uncomped game

 

[Yorga]

Well if ETC forced them into mid tier that is on ETC's shoulders. I still think the book can be upper tier with a really competent general (player).

 

[bigbadbat]

Like me.... Muwahahaha..(maniacal laugh!)
I really think they are more of a defensive army.
I've seen some decent cavalry builds, but I got something different in mind.

 

[Yorga]

Like me.... Muwahahaha..(maniacal laugh!)
I really think they are more of a defensive army.
I've seen some decent cavalry builds, but I got something different in mind.

Any army whose shooting is above average is a defensive army at it's core. Basically a 'soften and then strike' like High Elves, Dark Elves, Skaven, Dwarves and Lizards.

I see WoC, DoC and OK as balls to the wall charging armies. Throw in Brets too.

 

[The Sun King]

I agree Yorga although Skaven is not really a "and then strike" kind of army... they only really have the HPA to do the CC killing. But I get what you're meaning.

Regarding Brets(I'm a Bret player myself) I've found that against stuff like WoC they actually become defensive - granted that you've brought 2 Trebs... but still.

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

All I know is that I am dreading playing against a HE army that puts 'Banner of the World Dragon' on one of their hammer units, as I seriosuly have no idea how I'd deal with such a threat... So many of our good units have 'magic attacks'...

...Its gonna' sting :grave: