Kindred said:
My most regular rival plays HE, and let me tell you, they are a monster in 8th ed. I've picked up a couple tricks though, which has served to keep me from losing EVERY game, just most of them.
They do indeed seem quite strong.
Kindred said:
Don't count on harming his phoenix guard any time soon (4+ ward save, add any lvl 1 mage casting a high magic spell from their unit, and that becomes a 3+. Also they ignore our fear.) Best bet is to ram something ethereal into their flanks to keep them out of the fight for a few rounds.
Well, Fear never works for me anyway.
A 4+ ward save isn't
too bad. Don't get me wrong, it's very good - just not invincible. A VL/SGK can have OTS to even the odds. And, they're still T3, so for our core it's not much worse than fighting units with a 3+ or 4+ armour save. Dance and/or Vigour should help a lot.
As units go, they're just not something I fear.
Kindred said:
Try to figure out where their Banner of the World Dragon is by tossing out some weak spells at each unit (for 50 pts, easily the strongest banner in the whole game, theyll always have one). This unit will be invincible against your magic, your grave guard, your black knights, your characters, and all your ethereal stuff. Try to swamp em with zombies or skellies then flank em with a monster or blood knights, depending on what the unit is. A good bet is to watch for any unit they put one or more mages in, as the banner gives them a 2+ ward against miscast results. Am I the only one that finds this banner so overpowered its ludicrous? (but hey, we get to spend a mere 75 points to give only blood knights a...4+ ward save against.....arrows...sigh)
IMO, that banner is the most broken item in 8th. No conditions, no downside, best save in the game, works in every phase, grants it to any characters in the unit, cheap enough to be taken on a regular standard, miles better than
any comparable item.
One thing though - black knights and GG aren't affected by it, since neither have magic attacks.
Of course, whether they'll be
effective against a banner unit is another matter entirely. :tongue:
To me, it seems like the only real counter we have (not including chaffing it all game) are:
1) A
blender lord without a magic weapon. I hear on a lot on other forums that our lords can just switch to non-magic weapons with no loss of combat ability. Although, I'm still waiting for suggestions regarding which mundane weapon I should use on my Ghoul King:
Should I use a Great Nothing (which does nothing), an Additional Hand Nothing (which does nothing), or a Hand Nothing and Nothing (which does nothing, and gives +0 to his armour save)? Choices, choices...
2) Crypt Horrors. So long as they can survive (and be raised fast enough) they seem like the unit with the best chance of standing up to the banner unit, and slowly killing it.
Kindred said:
Buff your magical defense with some scrolls or a channelling staff, even though Teclis is no longer a god their mages can still evaporate whole units with a lazy wave of their hand. Dont bother using offensive magic against them, their copious ward saves let them laugh off any spells you send back at them. Focus on buffing and restoring your own forces.
They have very good magic (possibly even the best of the new 8th edition books). I'm not sure why their lore needed 2 signature spells
and a free +1 to cast. And, the Book of Hoeth is amazing - especially for dispelling.
Still, at least we're actually allowed to try and dispel their spells this time.
Kindred said:
Really the best way to beat them is not to play VC against them, as we lack the proper tools for fight them. I've had infinitely more luck using Dwarves against them, shutting down their magic phase and bombarding them with war machines. My win/loss ratio with dwarves is about 50/50, while my VC will be lucky to win 1 game in 6 against a HE army.
I think we'll only really struggle against the banner.
We have reasonable counters for most other things they can do.
