That is kind of what I meant... I dont see a solid counter. Either you get Fencers and hit on 5s, wound on 4s (2s first round) and the lord still has 3+(6+ first round) AS and 4+ ward... OR you hit on 6s, wound on 2s and he has 5+ AS and 4+ ward... either way I dont see a good way to fight them.
Dealing with a Daemon Prince
- Thread starter Vipoid
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rothgar13 said:
I missed something in the faq, what part lets soulfeeder work with stomps?
Edit: the glittering scale and MoN does nothing but gimp the princes defence as you always hit on a 6 (it's the wounding part where they left out that a 6 always succeeds)
Johnny-Crass said:
As someone who just contemptuously swatted away Skaven on the strength of 1+ saves and multiple-Wound models (go go Empire!), I'd say you put a bit too much faith in the Warp Lightning. It's very random. Great for infantry and monstrous infantry because even a roll of 4 will crush them, but for the heavily armored guys it plinks off quite often.
@Yorga: 555 points is his total cost, but you can easily trim 25 of that off, since the Chaos Familiar is anything but necessary.
@Zarb: The FAQ used to say that Thunderstomp cannot benefit from special rules and vice versa, they took out the "vice versa" part, so Wounds from Thunderstomp now trigger Soul Feeder.
Between new ogres and new warriors my woodies may need to shelf warm a while.... Might need a new book.... Sigh
Coven of Lights on the other hand will be rising hardcore.
Coven of Lights on the other hand will be rising hardcore.
Yep, the Coven of Light looks like a better idea with just about every release in 8th. I guess I'm going to find some room for a couple of Wizard Heroes in my Empire list... though then again I already have 2 castings of Banishment per Magic phase. Go go War Altar! :tongue:
lol
GW- designers must be loaded with chaos players. I always thought chaos got too much love in every edition. Ok got the venting out of my system now back to work.
OK so 2 choices i guess.
1. out character build them. Which seems almost pointless since it looks like they can do anything we can do +1
2. or out magic them
I think im going to have to choose the latter of the two.
But i will still try my blending double screaming list of horror at least once.
GW- designers must be loaded with chaos players. I always thought chaos got too much love in every edition. Ok got the venting out of my system now back to work.
OK so 2 choices i guess.
1. out character build them. Which seems almost pointless since it looks like they can do anything we can do +1
2. or out magic them
I think im going to have to choose the latter of the two.
But i will still try my blending double screaming list of horror at least once.
Swaiper said:
No, I agree. But, given the choice, I'd still favour Ogre Blade - if only because it seems better against other chaos units.
Zarb said:
Yes, but without it, characters would be hitting him on 5s - and they're the most likely to actually injure it.
rothgar13 said:
What's Chaos Familiar?
Aedin said:
Glad I'm not the only one who's seeing it that way...
Hello! first post!
I have been creeping this forum for a while but never have been brave enough to speak up till now, I need to get your opinion on a idea I had about how to deal with a demon prince.
Vamp lord
quick blood
RF
Dread knight
+ 2 strength (or maybe even +2 attacks)
4+ ward
OTS
Mounted +barding
Heavy armor
Shield
Body guard (wright king)
Mounted + barding
Night shroud
Dawn stone
Both in a Unit of Black nights with the Razor standard (armor perching)
So get the charge into dreaded DP. Vamp challenge because he has to.
vamp hits first and hits on WS 9 to DP ws 9 with MoN would be 5s?
The armor save would all be negated by the strength + armor percing
And maybe just by the standard?
I was thinking the +2 attacks to try and get past the MoN and the standard to get past the armor save?
I have been creeping this forum for a while but never have been brave enough to speak up till now, I need to get your opinion on a idea I had about how to deal with a demon prince.
Vamp lord
quick blood
RF
Dread knight
+ 2 strength (or maybe even +2 attacks)
4+ ward
OTS
Mounted +barding
Heavy armor
Shield
Body guard (wright king)
Mounted + barding
Night shroud
Dawn stone
Both in a Unit of Black nights with the Razor standard (armor perching)
So get the charge into dreaded DP. Vamp challenge because he has to.
vamp hits first and hits on WS 9 to DP ws 9 with MoN would be 5s?
The armor save would all be negated by the strength + armor percing
And maybe just by the standard?
I was thinking the +2 attacks to try and get past the MoN and the standard to get past the armor save?
rothgar13 said:
WHEEEZEE! Somebody get me a glass of water! I thought paying 485 points was too much in one place! That's Like Vamp Lord on a Dragon cost. And about as survivable versus cannnon shots.
rothgar13 said:
So in light of the above is it a 'special rule' about Juggers having +1 str on the charge and therefore does NOT give them str 6 stomps that turn?
Yup it is a special rule so str5 stomps.
That vamp build would whack through armour but a knight bus especially without the movement banner would have a hard time charging the deamon prince. You'd need the extra strength and then as you'd both being using ASF no rerolls. At best you hit twice and he fails 2 ward saves. He then hits back hard and any wound he does he can potentially get back.
I'd have to math hammer it but he would probably quite happily take it and carry on.
A
That vamp build would whack through armour but a knight bus especially without the movement banner would have a hard time charging the deamon prince. You'd need the extra strength and then as you'd both being using ASF no rerolls. At best you hit twice and he fails 2 ward saves. He then hits back hard and any wound he does he can potentially get back.
I'd have to math hammer it but he would probably quite happily take it and carry on.
A
He is just too fast and we dont have cannons thats all. Everything we might throw at him he can just run around it and pick something else getting easy flanks and easy rears. Thrones and other stuff will be gone within a turn. I see some people think that they will catch him with a vamp on horse but honestly you wont he will laugh at that and hop over them.
Also people tend to think that the DP is the whole army..... but there is so much more in there thats also very hard. If you take 1000 points of modells to just barely kill it he wins, ok the DP is gone but against a load of points wich you will never win back.
The only thing I can think of is Terrorgheists (2)
Just one meaby silly qeustion:
How many princes can one take? I mean flying is an option not an magic item and the 555 one is just the lord slot...... so he can also take a hero one (if that is allowed) with flying....
Also people tend to think that the DP is the whole army..... but there is so much more in there thats also very hard. If you take 1000 points of modells to just barely kill it he wins, ok the DP is gone but against a load of points wich you will never win back.
The only thing I can think of is Terrorgheists (2)
Just one meaby silly qeustion:
How many princes can one take? I mean flying is an option not an magic item and the 555 one is just the lord slot...... so he can also take a hero one (if that is allowed) with flying....
well with my previous Night buss (deathstar?) you could also squess in 2 terrors.
the night buss with the vamp and the WK would eat his other units as well i would think, Dont know about the juggers, but give 3 of them ASL and -S from the night shroud, plush all the Black nights are going though armor too?
So his DP can dance with the 2 terrogiest all game while you mop up with the nightbust deathstar thingy
the night buss with the vamp and the WK would eat his other units as well i would think, Dont know about the juggers, but give 3 of them ASL and -S from the night shroud, plush all the Black nights are going though armor too?
So his DP can dance with the 2 terrogiest all game while you mop up with the nightbust deathstar thingy
Can we just stick a skeleton bus to tie DP for the rest of the game ?Then just hope we can rez enough back.
I suppose he will just ignore the unit unless we somehow manage to charge it.
Last thursday at the store out of 8 players 5 had warriors of chaos. All smug as hell.
Well, time to collect WoC. Welcome back to warhammer for me with my 10 year old vc army, yay.
I suppose he will just ignore the unit unless we somehow manage to charge it.
Last thursday at the store out of 8 players 5 had warriors of chaos. All smug as hell.
Well, time to collect WoC. Welcome back to warhammer for me with my 10 year old vc army, yay.
I'll try again since nobody's really responding: What about screaming? Why try to out build this guy, we have plenty of tools to deal with him in the form of ME's exploding, Screams, chaff, Screams, death snipes and Screams... 
The Sun King said:I'll try again since nobody's really responding: What about screaming? Why try to out build this guy, we have plenty of tools to deal with him in the form of ME's exploding, Screams, chaff, Screams, death snipes and Screams...
The first post of this thread was to figure out a way of dealing with a beefed DP without screams. Easiest solution would be to though 2 terrors. However I don't like being forced to take 2 terrors just to be competitive =/
The Sun King said:I'll try again since nobody's really responding: What about screaming? Why try to out build this guy, we have plenty of tools to deal with him in the form of ME's exploding, Screams, chaff, Screams, death snipes and Screams...
Because I was wondering if there were any good ways for VC to kill a DP, without using a Terrorghiest.
If I hadn't added that clause, I expect posts 1-100 would all read "2x Terrorghiest."
flappie said:
With VCs, I always thought that we had strong Lords to balance both their importance (the army crumbles if they die) and our relatively weak core.
With WoC, they now seem to have better Lords (The DP in particular is stronger than any VL/SGK build you can name), yet they suffer no ill effects if their lords die, nor do they need them to balance out deficiencies on their core.
Could just be looking at it wrong, but that's how it seems.
@Vipoid
Isnt WoC core balanced by their models cost ? They have typically smaller armies...it just seems that they more than make up for it in their obscene damage output.
Isnt WoC core balanced by their models cost ? They have typically smaller armies...it just seems that they more than make up for it in their obscene damage output.
Vipoid said:
You also have to catch it, the main problem being as soon as you leave the generals bubble its going to be faster than you,even without wings. Then you have the added problem if its a death mage trying to snipe them before they even get within 8"
Its simply not going to be that easy to get of the buggers within 8" and keep them both out of the charge arc. I think death spam will be the best bet, at least you don't have to get within charge range to start trying to kill it.
Shadow is also another option, simply nerf it and challenge it, lowering the S will help a lot.