Dealing with Banner of the World Dragon Deathstar
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the only way i can see to beat it for VC is Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma then Pit of Shades/The Purple Sun of Xereus but that is too reliant on magic
Hanblack Nagash
Vargheist
What about a Lord on a Zombie Dragon? With a mundane lance, Nightshroud, Quickblood and Red Fury he can put a lot of hurt on a unit like this. They'll be striking last at S3, and the Dragon can unleash his breath weapon and then LOT of attacks from the lord on top.
Front on he'll bounce, but on the flanks he'd be devastating. Plus, no cannons to worry about!
Front on he'll bounce, but on the flanks he'd be devastating. Plus, no cannons to worry about!
PrinceCharming
Black Knight
Blutsauger said:
thats just the models in base oontact at str 3, 2nd rank and further get their str bonus
That's why he said he'd bounce from the front. There will be no supporting attacks from a flank or rear.
PrinceCharming
Black Knight
eggspr said:Watch the book come out and it's just 2+ vs magic in the magic phase... and we'll all laugh about the broken rumors
How could they let in an item giving an item with a 2+ vs all attacks against an entire army (DoC)? I honestly don't buy it.
Which this does sound outrageously crazy for an item, hypothetically, what'll you think the ETC.'ll do about it? Just ban it? Is it that powerful, or do you think that'd be acceptable? Does the ETC. out-right ban random items like that?
Alternatively it might be already restricted in some way we don't realize (Like only being held by a model on a dragon or something? It's dragon themed, I don't know lol?).
Also, more on topic and to anyone, I'm curious how much would a Corpse Cart help in the fight against this? Would bothering to get our core troops/GG striking first (Plus the more readily renewable ranks) be viable? The whole Martial Prowess thing is a real issue as well, essentially being in "Horde" without forcing the vast point sink (the main weakness of GG atm, if I'm not mistaken). Do we think they'll be having units small enough that we can actually cut into their attacks back (Ie if 7 across, will we chew through the back 14+ to hit their 3rd rank that is attacking us?); Or is it more likely that they will be just going Full Retard Death Star and offering no quarter to anyone or anything?
Oh, also, if we make them retreat for what ever reason (Panic/lose combat) they'd lose the banner as well, AoDM/other Ld-Debuffs might make or break fighting a unit like that, trying to push them to 6-7 mark and under the bell curve, so they drop the banner and make easy prey. (Although if they are running from combat, they'd most likely be testing on Stubborn/Steadfast rules so unlikely to run from combat)
Definitely seems like a beard-y item, I won't be surprised if it's not the terror we're anticipating. (Although I won't be surprised if it is either
)
ETC banned common magic items like the folding fortress, so banning the banner wouldn't be out of the question.
Broken items like the pendant is restrcited, so they'll restrict the banner in a sense.
The best thing about ETC is it allows you to bring strong items/builds, for a price. There's no way they'll outright allow the banner if it's as what the rumors say it is. HE players will have to pony-up for it, big time. But that's ok... it dissallows utterly broken builds, so games are much motre reliant on a player's skill at playing the game as opposed to using broken combos.
We can't have a Vampire Lord with QB or RF if we bring 2 TGs. We can't ahve a TG if we bring a QB/RF Blendy Lord... Imagine what they restrict if you take this stupid bannwer?
Though for the folks that play uncomped sillyhammer... ouch, really ouch
Broken items like the pendant is restrcited, so they'll restrict the banner in a sense.
The best thing about ETC is it allows you to bring strong items/builds, for a price. There's no way they'll outright allow the banner if it's as what the rumors say it is. HE players will have to pony-up for it, big time. But that's ok... it dissallows utterly broken builds, so games are much motre reliant on a player's skill at playing the game as opposed to using broken combos.
We can't have a Vampire Lord with QB or RF if we bring 2 TGs. We can't ahve a TG if we bring a QB/RF Blendy Lord... Imagine what they restrict if you take this stupid bannwer?
Though for the folks that play uncomped sillyhammer... ouch, really ouch
eggspr said:Though for the folks that play uncomped sillyhammer... ouch, really ouch
IF it is as the rumours, then I'll probably just outright refuse to play against anyone taking it (at least if they slap it on their 60-70% of points deathstar). No loss on my part, there's always plenty of opponents where I game.
eggspr said:ETC banned common magic items like the folding fortress, so banning the banner wouldn't be out of the question.
Broken items like the pendant is restrcited, so they'll restrict the banner in a sense.
The best thing about ETC is it allows you to bring strong items/builds, for a price. There's no way they'll outright allow the banner if it's as what the rumors say it is. HE players will have to pony-up for it, big time. But that's ok... it dissallows utterly broken builds, so games are much motre reliant on a player's skill at playing the game as opposed to using broken combos.
We can't have a Vampire Lord with QB or RF if we bring 2 TGs. We can't ahve a TG if we bring a QB/RF Blendy Lord... Imagine what they restrict if you take this stupid bannwer?
Though for the folks that play uncomped sillyhammer... ouch, really ouch
I already have rather poor impressions of the game at large; But the ETC does look rather much more attractive than the basic game IMO. If I were to play at an event beyond my circle of friends I would rather it be one of those events. I however, am alright with sticking to not playing much at all. I think the game makes an alright course for drawing up narrative battle-chains though
I still think that something is missing. As was pointed out the rumored rules for this banner would completely mess up my daemons. 2+ ward against everything :O
Lynks said:eggspr said:Though for the folks that play uncomped sillyhammer... ouch, really ouch
IF it is as the rumours, then I'll probably just outright refuse to play against anyone taking it (at least if they slap it on their 60-70% of points deathstar). No loss on my part, there's always plenty of opponents where I game.
Much like people refusing to play against 3 red fury vamps in 18-20 BK deathstar consisting of 60% points flanked by 2 terrorgheists? I'm not saying u play that Lynks, but I've seen cheesy VC builds that creates the same "I'm not playing against that" reaction in uncomped settings.
eggspr said:Lynks said:eggspr said:Though for the folks that play uncomped sillyhammer... ouch, really ouch
IF it is as the rumours, then I'll probably just outright refuse to play against anyone taking it (at least if they slap it on their 60-70% of points deathstar). No loss on my part, there's always plenty of opponents where I game.
Much like people refusing to play against 3 red fury vamps in 18-20 BK deathstar consisting of 60% points flanked by 2 terrorgheists? I'm not saying u play that Lynks, but I've seen cheesy VC builds that creates the same "I'm not playing against that" reaction in uncomped settings.
Pretty fair to not play against that, but at least it's still kinda counterable.
I suppose Light magic buffs + Vanhels and Hellish vigor + GG or CH will be the way to deal with the Banner death star. Might even be some decent value in corpse carts
Nagashizzar
Vargheist
Darbagal said:
Johnny Crass already said he saw the book and the Banner is exactly what we heard!
Nagashizzar
Vargheist
The Sun King said:Here was hoping that the new HE was nerfed
You need to see the bright side, we'll need you more than ever for our armylist ;-)
The banner is not bad people. Did you folks fight the gut star or the old chosen star? I think most will say no. Avoid the unit kill the rest take the win. Plain and simple
PrinceCharming
Black Knight
the gut star is doable with a knight bus imoh, but still, its rumours and its a new army, at first it was like, omg deamon prince whamhlma, and now u got tactics enough against it
@Johnny: You make it sound easy outrunning a Movement 5 Horde that absolutely slaughters everything in it's way and is impervious to magical damage. Not even the rod of flaming death holds these badboys in place. And you got the PSun to deal with the Gutstar... and the Chosen star WAS broken. I'm not trying to whine here, just setting the whole "just avoid them" in perspective 
But yeah for us totally awesome seasoned players it's a walk in the park! *Runs away and hides in the nearest closet while whimpering softly in the fetal position* 
@Nagashizzar: Thanks for the confidence, made my day dude!
@Prince Charming: Agreed, the whole "it's so horribly broken" hype will die out eventually when a big enough arsenal of tactics have been developed. Until then: Aim for the bushes! :tongue:
But yeah for us totally awesome seasoned players it's a walk in the park! *Runs away and hides in the nearest closet while whimpering softly in the fetal position* @Nagashizzar: Thanks for the confidence, made my day dude!
@Prince Charming: Agreed, the whole "it's so horribly broken" hype will die out eventually when a big enough arsenal of tactics have been developed. Until then: Aim for the bushes! :tongue:
96 points is three units of bats = two turns of redirection
90 points is two spirit host bases = 1.5 turns of redirection
Raise Dead is 0 pooints = 1 turn of redirection.
That is 4.5 turns of redirection and one turn of them moving up the board. Mark me down as not worried
90 points is two spirit host bases = 1.5 turns of redirection
Raise Dead is 0 pooints = 1 turn of redirection.
That is 4.5 turns of redirection and one turn of them moving up the board. Mark me down as not worried
Sure it's doable, especially if your opponent is lying on his belly scracthing his behind and not watching what is going on on the battlefield Deathstars are always managable, but it's warhammer - you opponent, sadly, also has some moves
Deathstars are always managable, but it's warhammer - you opponent, sadly, also has some moves
Just saying it is one unit. I am more afraid of it being moved onto dragon princes... That would be a problem for me