Dear Johnny

[Xivigg]

I know it's not a question, but i must say i'm really disappointed by the new Daemon of Chaos book...

After reading it, i'm left with the impression that they nerf everything while raising their prices.

All Tzeentch units seem useless to me... They lost their magical touch (their lore is terrible) and now everything is giving Regenerate to enemy units ?? no thanks...

Slaanesh lost the most of the toys that make them worth playing (magic, gifts). Only their fiends hold any interest to me...

Khorne's bloodletter cost got increased by 2 points and their statline got the axe... They are still playable but they seem overcosted to me... the new cannon does look promising...

Nurgle is ascendant i guess... Their lore is ok and most of its unit are the same with a small increase in cost. The new drone look very good.

Gone are the customizable gifts, now you have to pay premium prices for, most of the time, subpar ability and the worst, you don't know what you'll get as it's a random thing. The 4 "artifact" are IMO terrible and the rest of the item are ok at best. After reading the gifts section, i was considering playing vanilla character, an idea i discarded quickly for the option of just not playing them... why bother if i can't protect them or have fun toy to use ?

The special rule for the army aren't to my liking... Daemonig instability changing so i have a 1/36 chances of losing whole unit don't agree with me. The new "random event" happening at all magic phase is horrible having 7 effects out of 11 being bad to the army (that's 23 chances out of 36!). IMO it aim at creating mono god armies to minimize the possibility of something bad happening to you.

All in all... i don't like what they've done with the daemon. Some people might like the randomness and the fluffiness that they put in the book... but not me...

 

[Yorga]

Dear readers, why do people say that OnG is one of the weakest books in 8th edition? What are their weaknesses? Why are they not viable? Teach me, oh great ones.

The way I see it they have low ld, close to no armour save/initiative and standard WS, BUT they are really cheap! Are they not cheap enough for all these shortcomings? Is it the animosity randomness that makes them weak?

Having lots of models does not help you win if your army breaks and runs easily. Soon all those models are more a liability than an asset. Orcs and Goblins seems to lack the synergy that would make them a top tier army. Too much mediocrity. That's my humble opinion.

 

[Swaiper]

Ah, makes sense. Thank you Yorga

 

[Xenashi]

Ah, makes sense. Thank you Yorga

Animosity is another fact that brings them down. and having mediocre leadership.

 

[PrinceCharming]

Dear johnny!

do you think a army taht is msu, has a chance to win tournaments?

 

[The Dread King]

Ah, makes sense. Thank you Yorga

Animosity is another fact that brings them down. and having mediocre leadership.

OnG are really fun to play and the models are great, so they're viable. If you don't mind being beaten a lot, go play them. What I recommend is to have OnG and a 'winny' army (e.g. VC) so that when you're in a very competitive mood and you think your OnG is a liability, you can take the VC, but otherwise you can take OnG (or VC if you want). That's what I do anyway.

I don't see what makes OnG a bad army. Their strength values are brilliant across the orc side of the army, and so long as you have a solid list and a good general, then you can keep the army under control (steadfast helps us a lot). Standard of Discipline is brilliant for OnG; put it in your general's unit and if he's an orc warboss you'll have a Leadership 10 Inspiring Presence bubble.

If you want help about what's comp in OnG or how to make a good list, I can certainly whip one up for ya, as would Rothy. And ignore what people say about goblin big boss on gigantic spider. He is pretty damn epic (a competitive war machine hunter if you give him the right gear) and I take him in one of my 800pt lists (unfortunately when I'm playing in a tournament I can't use that one as the tournament I go to only allows one character at 800pts).

All in all, OnG aren't a bad army and are very fun to play and paint (at least that's my opinion). They're just not the most brilliant right now (I'm hearing that the new WoC book is very, very strong; in fact, OP to an extent), but if you can make the right list, they can be top tier. And that's what CN is here to help you do, though there is plenty more help online as OnG is a popular army.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I am back from Bay Area Open.... Video should be coming soon

 

[PrinceCharming]

did u win? /D

 

[Xenashi]

Ah, makes sense. Thank you Yorga

Animosity is another fact that brings them down. and having mediocre leadership.

OnG are really fun to play and the models are great, so they're viable. If you don't mind being beaten a lot, go play them. What I recommend is to have OnG and a 'winny' army (e.g. VC) so that when you're in a very competitive mood and you think your OnG is a liability, you can take the VC, but otherwise you can take OnG (or VC if you want). That's what I do anyway.

I don't see what makes OnG a bad army. Their strength values are brilliant across the orc side of the army, and so long as you have a solid list and a good general, then you can keep the army under control (steadfast helps us a lot). Standard of Discipline is brilliant for OnG; put it in your general's unit and if he's an orc warboss you'll have a Leadership 10 Inspiring Presence bubble.

If you want help about what's comp in OnG or how to make a good list, I can certainly whip one up for ya, as would Rothy. And ignore what people say about goblin big boss on gigantic spider. He is pretty damn epic (a competitive war machine hunter if you give him the right gear) and I take him in one of my 800pt lists (unfortunately when I'm playing in a tournament I can't use that one as the tournament I go to only allows one character at 800pts).

All in all, OnG aren't a bad army and are very fun to play and paint (at least that's my opinion). They're just not the most brilliant right now (I'm hearing that the new WoC book is very, very strong; in fact, OP to an extent), but if you can make the right list, they can be top tier. And that's what CN is here to help you do, though there is plenty more help online as OnG is a popular army.

I just wanted to point out weaknesses, this is an excellent post with awesome points that are really truthful. Don't be frightened by the rules play something that you think is cool.

 

[sackree]

Hey johnny, I was hoping for an outsiders opinion on my latest high elves list for some upcoming tournaments

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44036

Cheers, Tom

 

[rothgar13]

So I got 3 games in against Daemons yesterday, and I must say that most of my concerns about them have been laid to rest. Their magic defense is definitely subpar (no Dispel Scroll, have to plunk down immense amounts of points just to get a L4), but reports of their troops' demise were greatly exaggerated. Bloodletters were reasonably effective, Bloodcrushers have definitely improved, the new Daemon Prince is pretty fieldable thanks to the 4 major artifacts, the Beasts of Nurgle live up to their name as hard-as-nails chaff, and in general that random chart didn't have a huge effect on the game (a couple of minor boosts or penalties here and there). Overall, still a solid book.

And I also want to put in a word with regards to O&G - it's a fine army, and it has a lot of tools to deal with things. My only issue is that if you're taking advantage of its strengths (cheap, high-S attacks and lots of bodies), your army WILL malfunction every once in a while, and more often than not it tends to be significant. It's definitely a fun army to play, though, and I wouldn't discourage you from doing so, unless you have a very competition-only mindset, in which case you'll be pulling your hair out every time that your Savage Orcs fluff Animosity or Frenzy and run headlong at something. At least, that was the reason I moved on from it.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/gWXZkoi3tg8[/video]

 

[Johnny-Crass]

[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/9zfAQWJK72E[/video]

 

[Adam_Barrow]

What's a 12 model mono Nurgle WoC list look like? Daemon Prince, BSB, 5 Chariots, Giant, 2/3 Chimerae, and what? If I did the conversions right, I wonder if I could get a jump on a Nurgle WoC and DoC army both at the same time.

 

[Yorga]

[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/9zfAQWJK72E[/video]

Sounds like your #3 opponent was just a good old fashion cheater.

Were you drunk when you recorded this?:|

Guess what I got in the mail today? A painted Gorebeast Chariot from Singapore!

 

[Yorga]

[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/gWXZkoi3tg8[/video]

Like I said...I'll play whatever you want to bring. And what is wrong with Warriors on Warriors? Then it will truly come down to skill. Or luck.....:tongue:

Actually I'd rather play your Warriors, VC or Empire over Chaos Dwarves. Have never beaten Chaos Dwarves yet for some reason. Of course most of those games were 7th edition with the hated Earth Shaker!:mad2:

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Adam the other model is a mutalith who looks like a jabberslyth

Yorga i was really hungover and yes he was. Also those things are OP

 

[Yorga]

Adam the other model is a mutalith who looks like a jabberslyth

Yorga i was really hungover and yes he was. Also those things are OP

So I have heard. I have yet to try it out. Maybe this Saturday. Army Builder just got the WoC update. Some of the Misfire guys are meeting at Kriers this Saturday. Write Mark and tell him you accept the challenge. Better check his new comp rules though. Some big changes. I know you like to go for perfect comp.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Adam the other model is a mutalith who looks like a jabberslyth

Ah, cool choice. Is it gunna be pretty much the Slyth straight out of the box, or are you planning some conversion? All assuming the Slyth is the base model, and not just used for kit bash.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Purple reaper worms for chariots
Plauge drones as chimera
Slyth as vortex
Got the giant
Got the bsb
Prince?

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Prince?

Brovatar, of course, crushing it like always. Zacharias's Dragon Daemon Prince is worth a look if you haven't seen it before.

https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Thalable-the-Starving-a-Daemon-Prince-of-Nurgle

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Not a fan. Going find an alt company to use maybe Darklands or Maximini..... Hmmmmm

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Post up any interesting finds. I'm always looking for cool Nurgle models.

 

[PrinceCharming]

isnt a kadaai destroyed unbreakable?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Unbreakable and Unstable