Fast VC+Combat Freaks VC

[mr. dude]

Hey all! I joined a few years ago, having fallen for VC. Two years down the line, I think I've bought a couple of models, maybe watched a bunch of BatReps, but I've yet to play a game and I don't even have a proper army yet. Recently, some Nagash related events have sparked my interest again, so let's see if I follow through with it this time around.

Before I get into my post, because I have a tendency to ramble about nothing, I'll pose my question flat out: Does anyone have experience with this sort of playing style? What tips can you offer me? I'm looking to play standard game sizes.


It's hard to describe what I want, so while I think of that, let me talk about what I don't want. In my 10 years of wargaming, I've always tried to avoid the most popular models where possible. Here, that means I've got a self-imposed restriction on TGs and BK Buses. I also don't enjoy the Deathstar style, so I try to avoid that where possible. Finally, since I'm still new to the game, I'll steer clear of the Undead Legion for now and just focus on pure VC.

Okay, writing that didn't take long enough, let's see, what is the army I'm after...
Basically, I want to be in my opponent's face from the start. The way I imagine it, the army consists of two halves: Clan In-Your-Face and Clan Mop-Up-Crew. Clan In-Your-Face is all the fast guys, their job is, I suppose, to unsettle and not allow my opponent to whittle down Clan Mop-Up-Crew. They need high damage output, I can see a need for fast chaff (or easy access to Raise Dead so I can bring up Zombies exactly where I need them), and they need to be able to last at least until Clan Mop-Up-Crew gets in. Clan Mop-Up-Crew is there to simply win by attrition.

The units that seem to make sense to me so far are:
Vargheists (lots of them for In-Your-Face)
Dogs
Black and Blood Knights both look good here, provided I can run either of them without contradicting my restrictions (so, Black Knights without being a bus for my blender and Blood without being a deathstar). Or would they be too small and weak if I don't run them the common ways?

Clan Mop-Up-Crew could be built in many ways, all I know is that I want a Coven Throne Vamp Hero in there (which I'm given to think I can afford with all the other target saturation I plan to have going). I still don't know how I plan to get my VL/SGK in there yet. So, this one here is open to suggestions.



Just looking at this post, my ideas look very spread out. It almost looks like I'm saying I want one of each unit in the army. So, any thoughts on this? Thank you in advance my darlings

 

[Seneschal]

Hello there

I suggest having 2 units of 4 varghiests with champion, 2 units of 6-7 hexwraiths, two blocks of 40-50 skeletons, units of 5 wolves, a VL level 4 tooled for combat, vamp hero BSB on throne then depending on points, take 4 blood knights naked or a varghulf.
how many points are you aiming for? 2500 is the standard for most games. It will be tight to squeeze in all my suggestions but its a starting point. I sold my army book recently and need to get a new one so I can't give you exact points values and tidy up the list at the moment.

 

[countwuzzy]

Hi there I'm bit of a rambler my self. I'll tell you what I do, and if you like any if it. I hope it works for you.

My friends love to sit back and shoot, magic, war machines, ranged troops. So I've developed a strategy to deal with their lack of aggression to get into combat.

My lord is on a hellsteed. I go standard blender. Lvl1

I get a necro dispell scroll caddy, lvl 1

I own 40 dire wolves, so I bring 40, 8 units of 5.
Zombie bunker
Fill rest of core out with more zombie units as reserves( they have ran down stuff at the end of games)

I get units of 5 hex wraths 2-3
Units of 3 vargiests 1-2

Terrorgiest usually 1,(2 is not fun for my friends)
1-2 vargulf.


With all of my wolf drops going first. I wait till my opponent is done placing his whole army.

Then I stack my lord my special units and rare units all on one side. Using my wolfs to slow down the enemies units on the far side that I don't focus with my vamp lord and his posse.

And I just gank 1-2 units a turn.

Hex wraths give my lord a4+ look out sir. It's great when a ethreal takes a cannon ball for my lord. The hex wraiths unit champ accepts challenges for my lord when they combo charge

I avoid strong units and characters. Usually deploying my posse on the far side of the biggest threat.

I don't get anything greater then a lvl 1 wizard. I'm usually able to get important things in combat and even get to and kill enemy wizards by turn 3, dispell scroll can usually ruin a magic phase.


Most people on here criticize me when I list my strategies. But for the opponents I have, I've had great success.

Let us know what strategies you use.

 

[Alastor]

I'd say we're a highly (if not the most) magically dependant army there is and your success with minimal wizardry may be down to your opponents lack of cunning rather than it being a sound tactic. Vanhels, Raise Dead, IoN, Curse of Years, hellish vigour, these are all massively important spells which you can't get off with only two level one casters. If argue they are even more important in a zombie/dogs heavy list.

In regards to the original post, I agree with Seneschal's points.

Cheers

 

[countwuzzy]

I'd say we're a highly (if not the most) magically dependant army there is and your success with minimal wizardry may be down to your opponents lack of cunning rather than it being a sound tactic. Vanhels, Raise Dead, IoN, Curse of Years, hellish vigour, these are all massively important spells which you can't get off with only two level one casters. If argue they are even more important in a zombie/dogs heavy list.

In regards to the original post, I agree with Seneschal's points.

Cheers

My list works. The reason I've developed it is because of certain type of players. But I've won 3-4 events with this play style. In the past year. The key is. I get to combat in turn 2. There force is decided via my deployment. I would say most people call it quits in turn 3.

 

[Alastor]

I didn't doubt that your list works, just the reasons it works. If it works as well as you say, then kudos to you, it's not often you see a VC list with such a low caster count and even less often that it works.
I would've thought it would've been easier for any competent general to defeat you as you're missing out on a large (and in a lot if lists nigh on essential) part of our strengths.

Cheers.

 

[mr. dude]

Thanks all for the responses!

@Seneschal, I spent much of last night playing with Battlescribe, although I actually forgot to try out your suggestion, in my head it should all fit into 2500. It does fit the style, certainly.

@countwuzzy, part of what excites me the most when I post things like this is to get people who don't play the army the traditional way (because I never play armies the traditional way), so you have no idea how happy your post made me.

My hope with this is that, from the start of the game, I give my opponent too many potential threats to worry about. Even if none of them are fatal, they're immediate threats, while my bigger threats are still further back so perhaps less present in my opponent's thoughts. The worry is, again, spreading myself too thin, having too many half-strength units and not enough true game-winners (but then, it means I have to focus on synergy and that's my favourite word in the game).
In terms of magic, the ability (and necessity) to abuse spellcasting is in part what drew me to VC, but I was actually struggling to fit all that many spellcasters in my Battlescribe lists last night. That and countwuzzy's post had me thinking, how important is the magic phase to this kind of army? VC is traditionally all about winning through attrition, and the LoV is built to boost that. This army, as I envision it, is basically about ending the game as quickly as possible, whether I massacre or get massacred, I can't see a game with this kind of army dragging on.
Then again, I may have no idea what I'm talking about. Keep firing those thoughts away!

 

[HERO]

While I like the idea of Vargheists and such, Terrorgheists are much scarier

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

In your face lists are great! They normally include a BK bus unfortunately. Your VL can't really pair up with anything else for reliable protection. That's why the bk bus is crazy popular. Hex wraiths will not protect your VL from a lvl 4 wizard. They will all die horribly. Unless maybe you ante-up for a magic res 3 item on a hero or something. (Can heroes even join ethereals? I thought that was against the rules)

If you want to maybe use a minimalistic approach to UL you could use the rules that allow your VL to take any lore instead of requiring one LoV caster and the other rule which says when your general dies you don't have to crumble. These will help your flexibility options.

@Seneschal made a nice list already which is pretty well-tailored to your parameters.

Also you could try using a VL on zombie dragon. It's a bit hit or miss. But if you want an all or nothing army, he fits it nicely.

 

[countwuzzy]

Vampire on hellstead(not a monsterous cav, but just a cav with fly rule) vampire can take a 4+ look out sir if a unit of hex wraith (I bring 3 units) are withing 6". I take the look out sir test if it's a cannon ball. If it's a spell. I either dispell scroll it or if it's weak I'll have my lord take the hit.

 

[HERO]

Agreed on the Hellsteed if you're going for the really fast deal. You can even get a 2+/4++ on him with that mount, plus the fact that you can assassinate Wizards out of their bunkers with ease!

 

[Grok]

I like the idea of a fast aggressive list, but I do think there are a few problems to grapple with.

First you name you special, rare, and character choices, but what is filling out your core? Perhaps the biggest thing I see as a negative with this sort of build is that your general is leaving behind most of 25% of his army, which won't be supporting him. Unless you plan to fill your entire core with dogs, but after a certain point they sort of lose the investment for their points.

Not saying this should stop you from building the list, but its something you need to consider. How will your core help you, what purpose does it serve? VC core is basically the best at Tar Pitting, character protection/ delivery, and redirecting (for the dogs) that's about it .

 

[Grok]

Hex wraths give my lord a4+ look out sir. It's great when a ethreal takes a cannon ball for my lord. The hex wraiths unit champ accepts challenges for my lord when they combo charge

For your Hexwraiths to supply a look out sir you need 5 rank and file models, champions don't count as rank and file. So if you have a unit of 5, with a champion, it doesn't supply look out sir. You would need at least a unit of 6 and then if even 1 was killed no more look out sir. Sort of the bane of my Brettonian career, real pain. :/

 

[mr. dude]

Aye, that Hellsteed sounds exciting! I'd best get to work (started a mini ebay spree over the weekend, but didn't get enough of anything really).


The core question is really interesting, and it's one I've been asking myself for a while. What do I want my core to do? Normally I say that I want a few piles of Zombies, some Ghouls, and a few Dogs here and there. In this case, especially that I'm struggling to fit too many spellcasters in the list, Zombies may not be that useful. Dogs fit the theme quite well, so I can get a fair number of those in there. The final question is Ghouls or Skellies? Ghouls, I imagine, require a Mortis Engine or two to have enough staying power (which isn't a problem, I do plan on getting a couple, but maybe this list has different Rare requirements).
Or maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. If I'm rushing a wave of glass cannons into my opponent, the rest of the army needs to complement that. Whether it's by mopping up, as I phrased it in the first post, or by providing some durability, that can be defined by my use of the Core and Rare slots. I do have that glorious vision of a Coven Throne and a couple of Varghulfs following the initial Vargheist/Hexwraith charge, but I can keep tweaking with that because I really do enjoy all our options.

 

[countwuzzy]

Ok. Let me clear up a few things, thank you for bringing up that champs are not rank and file. I had forgotten. But luckily only 1 of my 3 units has a champ. That's the unit I combo charge with my lord. The other stay close enough for look out sir. Only so many things can shoot at etherals. So taking their numbers down to take away my look out sir. Serves the same purpose. They are ment to die so my lord won't. With new undead legion rules, it's no biggy. I have a terrorgiest people shoot at first. Also I have no idea why, but people are always so very scared of dire wolves. A unit of elf archer can wipe them out on a stand and shoot. But people poop their pants when I drop 8units of 5.

Yes it's risky to run a lord on a hell steed. He might die. But that's the fun part. He is so fast and aggressive. It's scary. Your opponent can atleast chaff a buss. Not a hellsteed vampire lord. Not a etherals posse.

 

[countwuzzy]

Also here is my hellsteed. Horde O bits, manticore wings, high elf general steel. Vampire lord from terrorgiest kit.

Still working on it.

Two things I like my core to do. First
Give me drops. So my opponent places everything before my lord and posse friends.

Second
To die. If the enemy wastes the whole game killing 1/4 of your points. I call that a success.

Unless you turn a core unit Into some sort of Death Star. I never plan on them winning anything. Cannon fodder all the way. I'm not emotionally attached to any core units in a vampire army.

I've seen other player almost cry when not all of their units make it through a battle. You win some you lose some.

 

[Demian]

O...M...G... that Hellsteed looks awesome! !

I need it!

 

[Bullhax]

Also here is my hellsteed. Horde O bits, manticore wings, high elf general steel. Vampire lord from terrorgiest kit.

Still working on it.

Two things I like my core to do. First
Give me drops. So my opponent places everything before my lord and posse friends.

Second
To die. If the enemy wastes the whole game killing 1/4 of your points. I call that a success.

Unless you turn a core unit Into some sort of Death Star. I never plan on them winning anything. Cannon fodder all the way. I'm not emotionally attached to any core units in a vampire army.

I've seen other player almost cry when not all of their units make it through a battle. You win some you lose some.

That hellsteed looks very cool. More pictures once you're done please!!!

And I totally hear you on the core part. In an army like this unit placement i key, many don't realize the game can be won or lost almost at initial placement. Having the upperhand and placing key units right where they need to be can decimate an opponent.

 

[mr. dude]

Oh wow, that's a fantastic Hellsteed!

I'm also starting to agree about the core. Every time I try building an army (I may be getting close to fitting everything I want into 2500 points!), I realize that there are so many big things I'm trying to squeeze into the list that I will have to accept losing some of them. If you kill my big block of Skeletons but leave my Vamps and Vargs alive, I'm a happy man.


Once I hit something I like, I will post the list that I come up with. Until then, you guys are really helping me out, so thanks!

 

[countwuzzy]

It's very possible there is something in the water that makes everyone in my community a moron...

I play competitively but I bring lists I will have fun with. And the attrition game(where the dependency of magic is a must) is boring to me. I tell you. With my list, my deployment technique, games are over in 3 turns. My opponents callsit quits everytime. So I have no dependency on magic. Plus the 300-500 pts my opponent spends on magic castors and range attacks... I spend that amount on combat.

I then get in combat by turn 2, making their range attacks obsolete. But again no one needs to believe that I have success against very competent generals. I absolutely don't care to convince you.

 

[mr. dude]

You and I seem quite similar in our approach to the game, Countwuzzy.

 

[countwuzzy]

It's always nice to find like minded people. Mr dude

 

[countwuzzy]

https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/show-us-your-vampire-lord-s.11814/page-19

Here are more pics of vamp on hell steed

 

[Emicrania]

I play an infantry based army but is kitted to get in close combat not later than 2nd turn:

Lord vamp blender with book
Necro lord with periapt
Necro wih scroll

Dogs dogs dogs
zombie zombie
Many skeletons with banner of swiftness

Grave guards with banner
Crypt horrors

Mortis engine.

With 3 wiz u get a good probability to have a second dance and only the core is M4 which is good cause it can be used for damage control and the chaff of the dogs is great. The me with 3 invocation and hthe periapt basically make me arrive to close combat with the minimal loss and once we we there, well..... I haven't lost one single game in the last dozen,tnx to Najo gotta say

 

[Regis Von Carstein]

Can you have 8 units of the same type in one army? I can't recall the exact number but isn't there a limit of the number of duplicate unit choices? The rule is there so that people can't spam units.