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First Game of AOS

Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
154
#26
Yeah, the Mourngul looks formidable. What do you think about taking alongside it ...crypt ghast,ghouls and the ghoul patrol.I was thinking the ghoul patrol could ambush the thundertusk?
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
447
#27
Yeah, the Mourngul looks formidable. What do you think about taking alongside it ...crypt ghast,ghouls and the ghoul patrol.I was thinking the ghoul patrol could ambush the thundertusk?
Is it the one that let you set them up close to any table edge? do they have limitations on the range they must stay away from nearest enemy's unit?
Because if there aren't heavy limitations, it could work (at least to wound the beast).
Do you need to set them apart, I suppose? If yes, the bad part is that you would place them in the movement phase, thus losing bonuses from the hero phase... but if you place them on the battlefield and then you move them, it would be excellent.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
154
#28
Here is the rule Unas,
''in your first movement phase,you must set up all theses units wholly within 6'' of any edge of the battlefield,and more than 9 inches from any enemy models.This counts as their move for that turn.''
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
442
#29
Even so, dealing even a third of max damage against nagash is highly unlikely, even with +1 to hit and wound from command traits and items (he is a generic hero, after all), given that he's got relatively low rend for a big monster, while Nagash starts with a 3+ save, which he can readily boost with mystic shield to a 2+ save, re-rolling ones.
The Frostlord has a 3+ basic save, and his horn attack (the one with 6 attacks for 3 damage) is -2 rend.

I agree on the points cost for Nagash. In normal play, he's a beast because he has 8 spells that can all be used to resurrect new units at double the summoning size. 900 points seems appropriate for that if there are no summoning restrictions. but when you have to pay points to bring in any summoned units, suddenly Nagash costs 900 +the cost of every unit he summons.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
447
#30
Here is the rule Unas,
''in your first movement phase,you must set up all theses units wholly within 6'' of any edge of the battlefield,and more than 9 inches from any enemy models.This counts as their move for that turn.''
meh.
I fear that the task "stop the thundertusk" is beyond its possibilities. With those limits it's fairly easy to place the beastclaw in a way that you cannot reach the central tusk... and even in good conditions, you still need to roll a 9" charge.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,100
#31
Bleh, I did misread the save as 4+, so he's slightly EVEN BETTER than I thought, but still shouldn't really come out ahead in a one on one dual with nagash. Actually, Nagash's average damage in the above scenario comes out about the same, due to the stonelord's wound-halving rounding up.

So yeah, he doesn't hit Nagash THAT hard, even with the horn attacks (that I did factor in above), especially since those are the only attacks he has that really threaten Nagash, and he loses them he loses wounds, while Nagash does slowly win the war of attrition, assuming average rolls, and even reduced to one wound Nagash still has a reasonable chance of just popping the frostlord outright with hand of dust.

I don't have a problem with the relative power of the frostlord and Nagash, especially since the Frostlord is a pure melee monster, while Nagash is a melee monster AND a halfway decent buff commander AND one of the most powerful wizards in the game, and has a long flight distance not tied to his damage value so he can just hand of dust and then fly away whenever he feels like it.

It's just the relative points values that are an issue, which pretend Nagash isn't just a match for a frostlord, but for a frostlord AND a thundertusk and MORE, which he really isn't. That and that Nagash's main gimmick being summoning, and the rules for summoning in AoS were so broken that the general's handbook essentially just threw them out.

But yeah, drop Nagash down to 650 points, maybe even 750 if they also introduce faction-based spell lists to buff out his casting ability in summoning-restricted games, or if they re-write the death scroll summoning spells to be matched-play friendly healing spells? Then I think Nagash would be fine. I have no problem with his beating and tanking potential, even against mosnters like the Frostlord or Maw-Crusha. Heck, thematically I see Destruction like Green in MtG. Big, beefy, points efficient monsters should just be one of the things that define the faction.

Just need to find a way to keep it from throwing the balance of small games out of whack. Maybe limit to one behemoth in 1k point games?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
447
#32
It's just the relative points values that are an issue, which pretend Nagash isn't just a match for a frostlord, but for a frostlord AND a thundertusk and MORE, which he really isn't. That and that Nagash's main gimmick being summoning, and the rules for summoning in AoS were so broken that the general's handbook essentially just threw them out.
Another character that suffered hard is Seraphons' Lord Kroak.
The mummified frog was a beast: it's almost immortal given that regenerates all the wounds at the end of each turn, got 4 spells, and can cast the same spell up to 3 times in a row. 540 pts, more than 2 Slaans combined, and more than our famous frostlord.
Yeah, 540 points could work, if not for the fact that at the same time they nerfed summoning and also Kroak's unique spell now can't be casted more than once due to the Rule of One (there's a FAQ on it).
Actually, I doubt I would take Kroak even at 400 pts.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,100
#33
Spmething needed to be done about summoning and spell stacking, the game is better with the rules of three and summoning restrictions than without, but they're both crude and hasty hatchet jobs. Hopefully we'll see an updated GH or AoS core rule set with a more nuanced, considered approach.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
154
#34
meh.
I fear that the task "stop the thundertusk" is beyond its possibilities. With those limits it's fairly easy to place the beastclaw in a way that you cannot reach the central tusk... and even in good conditions, you still need to roll a 9" charge.
Yeah I see what you mean,you would need a bit of luck for this tactic to work ( I was never worried about Beast's ambush rule or Dwarf miners etc.) Mind you,it looks like I'm going to need a lot of luck if a 1000 point beastclaw list could beat up Nagash :)
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
447
#35
Hmm,it sounds my Abhorrent Ghoul King and his gang are going to get their arse's handed to them then.
Well, the good news is that I finally saw in action Flesh Eater Courts, and even at 1000 pts, they are an impressive force.
King on terrorgheist, 2 x 10 ghouls, Haunter Courtier and 6 Crypt Horrors (with the formation that gives them an additional attack?)

Especially those last ones (buffed by Death save at 5+) are really true combat brutes.
 
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