Game System - Warhammer: The Old World

[Unas the slayer]

It’s Old World release day, and despite the weather related shipping delays accross most of North America, my order did make it to the store on time..

I was not so lucky.
My store has developed a... new field of competence (Lego) and discarded its collaboration with GW.

This has left me in an uncomfortable position, and i still have to see what the future will bring.

 

[Oppenheimer]

The pdfs are out on the warhammer site
Looks like no special characters just generic vampires. Poor Isabella and Vlad neglected again (I'm aware that they're not necessarily active during the time period the old world takes place in).
The rules are so similar to how they used to be it'd be pretty easy to just use the 8e rules.
Looks like VC don't get their ability to stop crumble when the general dies. We're like Tomb Kings now.

I don't have the core rules, is it true you can't snipe a hero off the back of a monster anymore? If so you'd always want your Hierophant or Vampire Count general to be mounted on a monster I'd think.

 

[Sception]

No special characters is expected and fits with the base lists in 'forces of fantasy' and 'ravening hordes'.

No sniping heroes off of monsters, most of them increase the hero's toughness and wounds, EG a bone dragon is +1 toughness and +5 wounds. Note that this means a Bone Dragon with a Tomb King on is Toughness 6 and 9 wounds, but with a High Priest on it's only Toughness 5 and 8 wounds.

Vamp Count Dragon is pretty much the same, with +1 Toughness and +5 wounds for Vamp or Necro Lord, which again means the dragon is more durable with a fighty hero on top than a wizard. Terrorgheist is the same +1/+5 when ridden by a Ghoul King. Sadly Wight Lords can't ride a dragon, would have been a nice nod to the old model. Abyssal Terror is a slightly discounted option for Vamp or Necro Lord at +1 Toughness and +4 wounds.

Characters on chariots instead just use the chariot's toughness, and add the character's wounds to the chariot's wounds. Some ridden monsters, particularly those with a howda and crew already, like the warsphinx, are treated as chariots instead of normal ridden monsters. In practice it's not a huge difference though, as a king on warsphinx will still be tougness 6 and 9 wounds, and High Priests can't ride sphinxes.

Putting a hero on a monster is a mixed bag. They get tougher & more wounds, but are more exposed to attacks, both shooting and melee, than they would be as infantry or cavalry models in a unit. Empire and Dwarves are both allowed 3 great cannons per thousand points, compared to the typically 1 lord on big monster per 1k points that most factions can run, and 3 great cannons stand a pretty good shot of dropping a dragon lord in a single round of shooting, provided they can all draw line of sight. And in 2k point games it seems a lot easier to fit 6 great cannons than a second lord on big monster.

Basically I'm not sure how the balance is going to pan out there. Probably depends on what kind of terrain becomes standard, and whether the standard game size ends up at 2,000 points or 1,999.

Undead factions have to worry about additional penalties if they lose their heirophant (or general for VC), and since you're likely to want to dedicate a lord to that critical load bearing hero, and 1,999 point armies are likely to get only one lord, taking a monster riding lord means exposing your load bearing hero to those cannons. Big risky play there. Tomb Kings have it easier than Vamp Counts here, since they can take a tomb king on a dragon or sphinx as their lord and take a hero level wizard as their load bearing hero buried in some backfield unit.

You technically could do the same with Vamp Counts by taking a Vampire Lord or Ghoul King as your lord level hero and just not giving them any magic levels, which would then force a hero level wizard to be your general despite the lower leadership. But are you really going to take a lord level vampire or ghoul king and /not/ give them some wizard levels? really? Well, actually, maybe, since wizards can't normally wear armor, and the Flayed Hauberk isn't a fantastic alternative. Hrm...

 

[Karthus]

Looking at the New VC Book released today.

Knee jerk reaction is... Yikes.


There are some pros, which I think is the Army Comp (which also has cons).

Being able to get GG as core if you have a WK, being able to have a TG as a Special choice if you have a SGK.

Also we can get up to 25% pts from a single allied TK unit, which is cool.

-

Whats the catch?

Say goodbye to: 45 pts spirit hosts, (147pts & you have to have a banshee or Wraith in army already) CHs with 5+ regen, BloodKs having 5 STR.

Say Hello to: Varheists costing 61pts a piece, our Vampires being Flammable having no RF or QB (and virtually 0 offensive Vampire Powers) and having to pay 30pts to use Invocation.

Yes, Vampires have to pay 30 pts to use INVOCATION OF NEHEK. I have no words... Necros get it for free tho, so I GUESS thats cool.

-

I may be getting blinded by the nerfs, and I havent gotten a hold of the Old world general rulebook yet ( havent seen the Main Spell Lores), so I might be punishing these troops too hard.

I mean every unit has 6+ regen, so thats kinda cool. (Ofc vampire units have flammable so, is it every worth it??)

There are some new tools, but Id much rather take a carbon copy reprint of 8th over this.
-

Overall, Im extremely disappointed. I wont go into all the details as Id rather everyone see for themselves.

But ya...unless we can figure out a good way to use these new "tools" Ill stick with 8th edition for another Decade.

Thoughts?

 

[Sception]

Please keep in mind when looking at stats for an Old World faction that overall damage is lower across the board. For one, strength no longer automatically lowers armor saves. For another many weapons and units have reduced combat stats from what you might be used to. Re: loss of red fury, a lot of things have fewer attacks than they used to. Chaos warriors for instance have only one attack each. Units that attack in multiple ranks get only a single attack if they aren't in the front rank as well, even if normally they'd make more than that. and re: quickblood, strikes first in general is less common across the board - eg some elven heroes have it, but it's no longer a faction-wide rule for high and dark elves. There seems to be more emphasis on actual initiative scores, and the vampire's 5/6 is noticeably above averate. Vampires having to choose between mundane armor and spellcasting is painful, but as long as you don't throw your vampire or their unit into combat with grail knights or chaos chosen or the like, chances are that vampire isn't going to be facing very many return attacks, as models that die before they swing don't get to swing at all. And yeah, capping at level 3 magic for a vampire is sad, but even without armor that vampire or ghoul king is a much more intimidating melee threat than most other wizards in the game, and if you really want a caster specialist then necromancers are right there (and if I were running Necrarch vampires, I would count them as necromancers rather than vampire counts/thralls).

On the other hand, blood knights are very expensive, and despite what their fluff entry says they are a noticeable step down from Grail Knights despite being around the same cost. That's not really a complaint on its own, I think it's reasonable for the cavalry specialist army to have the best elite cavalry in the game, and in universe grail knights are also supernaturally enhanced. the sidebar just feels a bit incongruous.

Anyway, I'm not saying the balance is good as it is, just that direct comparisons to 8e will be misleading, so it's worth playing out a few games before forming opinions on the matter. The down side is that if balance /isn't/ good we can't expect patches for Vampire Counts the way we might hope for with tomb kings, it will be up to us to come up with fixes and then convince others to let us play with them.

 

[Unas the slayer]

Overall, Im extremely disappointed. I wont go into all the details as Id rather everyone see for themselves.

Legacy army, and already nerfed.
I think the same fate goes for Lizardmen.

 

[Aren]

I don't think the army is too bad actually, though you can do some dumb things.

Blood knights seem a bit weak for what they should be...but you can resurrect up to 8 of them in a turn thanks to Nehek so they are weirdly strong, just for all the wrong reasons.

Vargheists are expensive but they are also very powerful IMO, tons of attacks, high ap with armour bane, skirmishers, decent initiative (will be 7 or 8 on the charge), I think they earn their high cost and rare slot.

The thing that's giving me the most issue right now is the fact that you can't have both a vampire count and a master necromancer under 2k. Lvl 4 wizards seem crucial (yet again) and you don't have access to them under 2k if you want to take a "blender" lord.

[Edit]: However, I think you can now buff Blood Knights with Hellish Vigour and Danse Macabre, at which point I think they become scarier than Grail Knights again.

 

[Sception]

Again, I strongly recommend people play with these rules a few times before forming firm opinions. Nearly everything is nerfed if you're comparing to 8th edition, not just Vampires, not just legacy factions. The Old World is recognizably Warhammer Fantasy, but coming from 8th it's one of the biggest edition jumps the game has seen, up there with the jump from 5th to 6th edition.

 

[Aren]

Again, I strongly recommend people play with these rules a few times before forming firm opinions. Nearly everything is nerfed if you're comparing to 8th edition, not just Vampires, not just legacy factions. The Old World is recognizably Warhammer Fantasy, but coming from 8th it's one of the biggest edition jumps the game has seen, up there with the jump from 5th to 6th edition.

Oh absolutely, that's a given.

Though I'm comparing to other factions in TOW rather than our 8th book. If anything, this is closer to our 6th book.

Let's take Blood Knights (BK) for example:

Compared to their closest counterparts in other armies, the chosen chaos knights (CCK) and the grail knights (GK) (same unit type, very similar points cost, similar equipment and profile):

• M8 for GK, M7 for BK and CCK
• WS6 for GK, WS5 for BK and CCK
• S4, T4, W1 for all
• I5 for GK, I4 for BK and CCK
• 2A for all
• Ld9 for GK and CCK, Ld7 for BK
• Same command options for all
• All can have hand weapons and lances
• All have barding, shields and heavy armour but GK cannot take plate armour which CCK and BK can
• BK take up to 50pts banner, GK and CCK take up to 100pts
• All can take a 25pt magic weapon on champion, GK can also give him a knightly virtue, BK can give him a vampiric power
• Close order, countercharge, swiftstride, first charge for all
• 6+ Ward for CCK and GK (sometimes 5+), 6+ regen for BK (and flammable)
• All have ways of mitigating or rerolling fear, terror, panic
• GK can reroll 1s when charging
• Costs (with lances): GK - 38pts, BK - 39pts, CCK - 38pts

So all in all they look very similar, with the Grail Knights (in my opinion) edging it out due to their higher WS, Initiative and more movement (both greater M and bonuses when charging). However, Grail Knights are not all that much better due to the quite significant lack of full plate. Taking mark of Khorne on CCK does make them much more deadly, though it comes at the cost of Frenzy.

I think ultimately it comes down to how well these units can be supported by the rest of the army, which is an area where Blood Knights uncharacteristically shine now. Van Hel's, Hellish Vigour, Mortis Engines and Invocation of Nehek all seem to work on Blood Knights (as far as I can tell). We have ways of easily improving their movement, weapon skill and initiative and most importantly we can resurrect fallen Blood Knights. I don't know how much synergy their counterparts can benefit from but for Blood Knights it seems like a lot. Maybe a touch too much.

Of course, playing games likely will change my perception of this, perhaps it's too difficult to stack buffs on Blood Knights, maybe it will never happen in a real game. Currently all I can say is that the potential is there and I'm not sure how to feel about it. On the one hand Blood Knights should feel strong, they are some of the most fearsome cavalry in the game. On the other hand, classically their strength has always come from strong profiles and rules but with little synergy with the rest of the army, given that they are not summoned cadavers but vampire knights.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the design of Blood Knights on paper. I think they've changed a lot in a very interesting way and are probably going to be used very differently now.

 

[Unas the slayer]

Yep, we need some time to test the game and the armies.

 

[Karthus]

Oh absolutely, that's a given.

Though I'm comparing to other factions in TOW rather than our 8th book. If anything, this is closer to our 6th book.

Let's take Blood Knights (BK) for example:

Compared to their closest counterparts in other armies, the chosen chaos knights (CCK) and the grail knights (GK) (same unit type, very similar points cost, similar equipment and profile):

• M8 for GK, M7 for BK and CCK
• WS6 for GK, WS5 for BK and CCK
• S4, T4, W1 for all
• I5 for GK, I4 for BK and CCK
• 2A for all
• Ld9 for GK and CCK, Ld7 for BK
• Same command options for all
• All can have hand weapons and lances
• All have barding, shields and heavy armour but GK cannot take plate armour which CCK and BK can
• BK take up to 50pts banner, GK and CCK take up to 100pts
• All can take a 25pt magic weapon on champion, GK can also give him a knightly virtue, BK can give him a vampiric power
• Close order, countercharge, swiftstride, first charge for all
• 6+ Ward for CCK and GK (sometimes 5+), 6+ regen for BK (and flammable)
• All have ways of mitigating or rerolling fear, terror, panic
• GK can reroll 1s when charging
• Costs (with lances): GK - 38pts, BK - 39pts, CCK - 38pts

So all in all they look very similar, with the Grail Knights (in my opinion) edging it out due to their higher WS, Initiative and more movement (both greater M and bonuses when charging). However, Grail Knights are not all that much better due to the quite significant lack of full plate. Taking mark of Khorne on CCK does make them much more deadly, though it comes at the cost of Frenzy.

I think ultimately it comes down to how well these units can be supported by the rest of the army, which is an area where Blood Knights uncharacteristically shine now. Van Hel's, Hellish Vigour, Mortis Engines and Invocation of Nehek all seem to work on Blood Knights (as far as I can tell). We have ways of easily improving their movement, weapon skill and initiative and most importantly we can resurrect fallen Blood Knights. I don't know how much synergy their counterparts can benefit from but for Blood Knights it seems like a lot. Maybe a touch too much.

Of course, playing games likely will change my perception of this, perhaps it's too difficult to stack buffs on Blood Knights, maybe it will never happen in a real game. Currently all I can say is that the potential is there and I'm not sure how to feel about it. On the one hand Blood Knights should feel strong, they are some of the most fearsome cavalry in the game. On the other hand, classically their strength has always come from strong profiles and rules but with little synergy with the rest of the army, given that they are not summoned cadavers but vampire knights.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the design of Blood Knights on paper. I think they've changed a lot in a very interesting way and are probably going to be used very differently now.

I have been given hope reading that other armies also have been "nerfed" like all Elves no longer having ASF. If every one is dragged down, then thats another story.

Tbh, Ive always been a fan of Buffing everyone, rather than nerfing but hey.

Just gotta wait for Sunny's Old World Guide to come out

 

[Sception]

Tbh, Ive always been a fan of Buffing everyone, rather than nerfing but hey.

think of it as buffing everyone's durability, and there are many such buffs.

There are no more spells that delete units, everyone is sorta pseudo stubborn (you can get pushed back a lot, and risk follow up charges, but you aren't at risk of getting run down entirely unless you break on more than your leadership not counting combat redults), 10 wide units don't fight in an extra rank, second rank spears are limited to one attack each, armor penetration is its own weapon stat so strength doesn't automatically reduce armor, which in turn means many units have to make trade offs between number of attacks vs. strength vs. armor penetration, many units have reduced combat stats overall, charging gives you a bonus to initiative but not automatic strike first or extra attacks, fightier units tend to cap at a lower rank bonus, no more step up attacks, so killing the enemy before they fight back counts as defense, several fightier factions get a bonus to their regular hand weapons, but those don't apply to attacks made with magic weapons, great weapons, lances, spears, etc.

There /are/ units that hit real hard, and some that are pretty fragile, but over all more of your units should stick around for more of the game, grinding out damage over multiple turns rather than deleting whatever they touch. I could be wrong, but i don't think it will be the rocket tag situation of 8e where you scoop entire units of 20+ models the first time they take damage.

If I'm right about the generalshift from rocket tag to battles of attrition (I might not be, people might only run the killiest stuff, idk), then that's a paradigm shift that strongly favors undead factions with our healing abilities.

And that's not the only core rule shift that might favor undead. base leadership seems to matter a lot more now (there are more leadership tests, you only fully break if you fail on your base leadership, etc), so leadership penalties are a big deal. Undead armies have access to these, whether through terror or other special abilities, like the 'skulls of the foe' upgrade for screaming skull catapults.

 

[Sception]

The first batch of Txarli Factory bases & unit trays have arrived from Coveted Forge. The arduous process of re-rebasing my Tomb Kings can now begin!

These are the plain top design, pre-fited for 5x1mm disc magnets (which I purchased from Apex Magnets). If you have a 3d printer you can purchase the print files from Txarli Factory. If, like me, you do not have a 3d printer, then you can purchase them printed from Coveted Forge for a reasonable price. The prints are high quality, & the packing was efficient & secure, using environment friendly packing material. Pre-modeled bases in several styles are also available, which was tempting, but these were cheaper, plus I want them to match my existing AoS bases for some limited crossover use. It only took a couple weeks for this lot to arrive, which was faster than expected, though I suspect I got my order in just before the Old World rush, so if you place an order right now it might take longer.

I'm very happy with these & will be ordering more soon. If you're looking for basing options for The Old World, Coveted Forge def has my recommendation.

Some minor nitpicks: the 25mm squares are just a tiny bit shorter than the larger bases. Not a problem, but if you stick a unit filler on a 50x50 or 50x75 in the middle of a unit of 25x25s, the filler's base will sit ever so slightly higher than the rest. Also a few of the bases had some fine plasticky fibers around some of the edges. Again, no big deal, but you might want to rub the edges on some sandpaper to clean everything up. It's still less cleanup work than the old gw plastic bases with the sprue nubs.

 

[Karthus]

View attachment 64143

The first batch of Txarli Factory bases & unit trays have arrived from Coveted Forge. The arduous process of re-rebasing my Tomb Kings can now begin!

These are the plain top design, pre-fited for 5x1mm disc magnets (which I purchased from Apex Magnets). If you have a 3d printer you can purchase the print files from Txarli Factory. If, like me, you do not have a 3d printer, then you can purchase them printed from Coveted Forge for a reasonable price. The prints are high quality, & the packing was efficient & secure, using environment friendly packing material. Pre-modeled bases in several styles are also available, which was tempting, but these were cheaper, plus I want them to match my existing AoS bases for some limited crossover use. It only took a couple weeks for this lot to arrive, which was faster than expected, though I suspect I got my order in just before the Old World rush, so if you place an order right now it might take longer.

I'm very happy with these & will be ordering more soon. If you're looking for basing options for The Old World, Coveted Forge def has my recommendation.

Some minor nitpicks: the 25mm squares are just a tiny bit shorter than the larger bases. Not a problem, but if you stick a unit filler on a 50x50 or 50x75 in the middle of a unit of 25x25s, the filler's base will sit ever so slightly higher than the rest. Also a few of the bases had some fine plasticky fibers around some of the edges. Again, no big deal, but you might want to rub the edges on some sandpaper to clean everything up. It's still less cleanup work than the old gw plastic bases with the sprue nubs.

I did the same thing, and have printed and used Txalri's movement trays with the 5x1mm magnets. Their stuff is great!

One note, if you want to print and or prime the movement trays, dont let them sit in the sun or heat too long as they will warp and roll up on the edges.

But very much recommended.

 

[Sception]

After further tinkering, updated 1,000 point list:

Tomb Kings Mortuary Cult

210 - High Lich Priest lv4, warding splint, earthing rod
210 - CHARACTERS: 21%

163 - 23 skeleton warriors, spears, light armor, shields, full command, phalanx
70 - 14 skeleton skirmishers, warbows
147 - 3 ushabti, warblades (might trade these out for the bows when I get the models assembled.
380 - CORE: 38%

200 - Necrosphynx, envenomed stinger
75 - Tomb Scorpion, ambush
275 - SPECIAL: 27.5%

135 - Casket of Souls
135 - RARE: 13.5%

compared to the previous list I lose prince & herald bsb and catapult, but gain a level 4 and a scorpion and a necrosphinx.

 

[Sception]

And here they are on their new bases, w/ magnets & such. I did get the bowshabti assembled, so for the moment I'll go with those, figuring the sphinx has melee covered.

 

[Unas the slayer]

I'm falling dramatically behind with my ToW schedule, tnx to real life working issues and other ongoing gaming duties, but i intend to slowly recover my pace.
In the end, we Tomb Kings are not known for being in a hurry...

 

[Sception]

In the end, we Tomb Kings are not known for being in a hurry...

We're here for a long time (not a good time).

 

[El Syf]

I’m happy for all those that are enjoying it. Personally just wish it had stayed dead and they focussed on AoS. Seems the easy money from the total war crowd was too much to pass up on.

 

[Sception]

Sorry to here it's not for you.

...

Here's a pile of old Vampire Count heroes that I rebased but never finished repainting for my Soulblight Gravelords, now getting ready to be rebased back to squares for The Old World. The Von Carsteins can easily be spared (my AoS collection has no shortage of infantry vampire lords, and cavalry lord isn't even a legal option anymore) and honestly they belong in the old world anyway, as do Keenan and Kell. The BSB conversion's also an obvious choice for retrobasing since BSB are staples in TOW and no longer an option in SBGL. The converted Ghoul King's easy enough to spare as while the new book did give them more of a distinct role, so they aren't just 'archregents but worse' like they were in the last book, they're still mostly squeezed out of FEC lists by the wealth of newer and more exciting hero options the faction has access to. Plus I think I still have one on sprue from the TG kit, so if I do write a FEC list that needs one I should be able to put another together. The plastic Infantry Wight King still holds up as a model, but I'm never going to deploy it when I could put Velmourn's model on the table instead, and honestly I'd probably run the mounted wight king before either of them. The converted backup necromancer's easy to spare as well - thanks to Torgillius I'm rarely tempted to run more than one regular necromancer these days, and when I do I have Octren's model for that, not to mention the new underworlds necromancer releasing soon.

Just have to go through the rest of my too-large Soulblight collection and cull the troops for excess models that can be spared to rebase. No sense having 4k points unpainted, unplayed, and half assembled for one game when I could have two separate playable 2k armies for different games. Old Skeletons can be shared with my tomb kings. With the nerf to zombies I have too many of those for SBGL lists anyway (and most I never got around to assembling, so they won't even need to be rebased). I can spare one of my two grave guard units, just a matter of which game gets the great weapons and which has to make do with sword & board....

The only real sticking points where I might have to make additional purchases are monsters, carts, and cavalry, as I don't really have extras of those to spare. Shame zombie dragons, corpse carts, and black knights/hexwraiths are perpetually out of stock. Extra frustrating, since I need black knight/hexwraiths for tomb kings convesions as well. Blood Knights are readily available, but I'm not sure the current plastics will fit on 30x60 bases, so I might have to pick up some empire knights and convert them just like the bad old days. At least I have spare black knight shields and blood knight heads to make the conversion easier than it once was, but the models will still kinda suck. Eh, /maybe/ I can get proper blood knights to rank up on 30x60s. I'll at least have to try.

 

[Oppenheimer]

I finally got my order book, ravegeing hordes, bretonnian and tomb king books. Still no core book anywhere for me to get. But, I enjoyed the new lore in the actual army books (or pamphlets they're very thin lol).
I'm okay with GW expanding back into The Old World as I like the lore. Especially excited for the new Black Library books. But, I do wish they'd actually come up with enough stock. That's really starting to frustrate me.

 

[Ielthan]

Sad to hear a lot of negativity aout the old world here. I only started making a VC army after the end times (very long term High Elf player), and actually the pdf has made me want to finish them and get them on the table. I was very disappointed they're not one of the "supported" armies, but having read the pdfs, they actually have more than the supported armies who don't have arcane journals yet, and the only thing lacking from the arcane journals is special characters and alternative army lists. I fully expect independent tournaments to allow the legacy lists in. I had an account here back in the day, can't even remember the username now, but Old World has lured me back into making a new one!

For those shocked at the perceived nerf, don't look at this compared to 8th edition where the power level of the game was incredibly high. Compare it to 6th edition; this is really a spiritual successor to that and the power level is more in line with that. I can already see quite a lot of strong stuff in the book, blood knights are clearly one of the scariest units in the game. Black coach is incredibly good. Vargheists, though expensive, are incredibly good; they seem like an 8th ed unit that has snuck into the game. Ghouls, similar to 6th ed again, are very good. Lots more too e.g. terrorgheists as scary as ever.

Fear is a very, very powerful rule in the Old World, almost as much as it was in 6th, psychology isn't the mere afterthought it was in 8th ed, having it army wide is a huge deal. I can't believe skellies are so cheap when they have this tbh. Big blocks of them with a beat stick character in wil auto win combats.

There are some things I'm disappointed with; lack of individual bloodlines is lame, no vampire lord when brets got this uber chaos lordesque duke is a bit odd, but overall I'm very happy, even if GW just stopped support right now there's enough to keep warhammer going basically forever in what they've released tbh. Having a great time writing lists again!

 

[Darkmoon9]

Sad to hear a lot of negativity aout the old world here. I only started making a VC army after the end times (very long term High Elf player), and actually the pdf has made me want to finish them and get them on the table. I was very disappointed they're not one of the "supported" armies, but having read the pdfs, they actually have more than the supported armies who don't have arcane journals yet, and the only thing lacking from the arcane journals is special characters and alternative army lists. I fully expect independent tournaments to allow the legacy lists in. I had an account here back in the day, can't even remember the username now, but Old World has lured me back into making a new one!

For those shocked at the perceived nerf, don't look at this compared to 8th edition where the power level of the game was incredibly high. Compare it to 6th edition; this is really a spiritual successor to that and the power level is more in line with that. I can already see quite a lot of strong stuff in the book, blood knights are clearly one of the scariest units in the game. Black coach is incredibly good. Vargheists, though expensive, are incredibly good; they seem like an 8th ed unit that has snuck into the game. Ghouls, similar to 6th ed again, are very good. Lots more too e.g. terrorgheists as scary as ever.

Fear is a very, very powerful rule in the Old World, almost as much as it was in 6th, psychology isn't the mere afterthought it was in 8th ed, having it army wide is a huge deal. I can't believe skellies are so cheap when they have this tbh. Big blocks of them with a beat stick character in wil auto win combats.

There are some things I'm disappointed with; lack of individual bloodlines is lame, no vampire lord when brets got this uber chaos lordesque duke is a bit odd, but overall I'm very happy, even if GW just stopped support right now there's enough to keep warhammer going basically forever in what they've released tbh. Having a great time writing lists again!

Agree completely, tried a test game so far against Bretonnia and loved it. I am a huge fan of 6th edition so I guess that makes sense. Even if tge current PDF is all we get, I am not opposed to homebrewing rules and special characters from the past for my home games. Perhaps even expanding the list of vampire powers for other bloodlines.

 

[Sception]

I had my first game today, 1,000 points of Mortuary Cult vs. Empire

Spoiler

Major victory for the Tomb Kings, but luck was on my side (one of the enemy's infantry blocks failed a terror test & fled off the board, and the necrosphinx made two max distance charges). My army also turned out to be a bit over-tuned.

I ran my current default 'cram in as many cool models as possible' Mortuary Cult army: lv4 liche, spearleton block, bowleton skirmishers, 3 bowshabti, scorpion, necrosphinx, casket. The Empire player had two core melee infanty blocks (spears & halberds), two core ranged support units (handguns & crossbows), and a bunch of points in heroes (lv2 wizard, two war priests, fighty lord). no cannons, no monsters, no heavy cav, no lv4 wizard, no greatswords.

In retrospect I should have reduced the lich lord to lv3 and dropped the necrosphinx. I could have filled the points with additional heroes & some warblade ushabti I had in my box. That would have made for more of a game, as the lv4 was kind of oppressive against only an lv2, and he just didn't have an answer to the sphinx. But it was fun regardless. Small games can often end up lopsided like that & we were both still new & getting a handle on the game, so no hard feelings I think.

Some key things I forgot during the game that I need to try and remember going forward: fear (never once made him roll for it), and the -1 to hit from light of protection (ie, the most important part of that spell).

 

[Oppenheimer]

So great to see your forces on the board already!