Legion of Nagash Hero Level Characters

[Marcus Von Drac]

I like Great Divide, Unseen Death and Chill Touch. Also I agree that it should be able to take over its normal allowance, as it allows for good combinations, without being ridiculously OP.

For another Weapon perhaps:
Spectral Blade - Not sure on points
This weapon has a life of its own, and can find its way past the stoutest parry, or defend from the strongest blows
The reaper has +1 to hit. Also all enemies suffer -1 to hit when targeting the Reaper in Close Combat

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I would probably price that around 30 - 35pts?

So that's 6 options in total with the option of the Blade of Souls as well. Everyone ok with these and the idea of increasing the magic item allowance?

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

Yep, what we have seems good. although as far as I can see you need to get a name for the extra Killing blow one. Perhaps something like:
The Scabrous Scimitar?
Overall I think we have good items there, and allowing the extra opoints should be fine as far as I can see.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok, I've updated the first post. Let me know what you all think.

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

Yes I think those items are fair.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

Yeah those items look fair,

I know its unlikly but I would add that the reaper can't be the army general

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Yes good point. Perhaps I should take it a step further and add that any unit the reaper joins cannot use his Ld?

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

That seems fair. I cant imagine a ghost being a great leader after all.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

Yeah, that seems fair

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok, I have made the changes. We now need to confirm the costs for the four characters. Any suggestions?

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

Something i've just noticed should the nagasi captin be able to ride a skeletal steed as he is 'alive'.

I'd go for 95-100pts for the zenith prince
Not sure on the reaper i'd be inclined to go for around 120 but i'm not completely sure
I'd go for around 65-70 points for the nagashi captin.
and around 60-65 for wizard guy.

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

For the Mortuary Priest I would say 75 ish.
About 90-95 pts for the Zenith Prince.
About 65-70 pts for the Nagashi Captain.
And for the Reaper say 110 ish.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Looking at the suggestions and previous comments I would go for:

Mortuary Priest - 70pts
Zenith Prince - 100pts
Nagashi Captain - 65pts
Reaper - 125pts

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

I would still say 75-80 for the Priest, he is an avarage spellcaster, with +1 to all his spells from the lore he will most likely use (remind you of the Necro thread DoN?), and a S4 breath weapon. That has to be worth a fair bit.

The rest seem good though.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

Yeah those points look fine, maby 75 for wizard guy

 

[Murderous Monkey]

I'd like to begin by saying how much I've enjoyed reading some of the different posts and threads in this forum. There are some very, very interesting ideas flying around.

The wizard character, however, strikes me as absolutely incredible value. While having admittedly poor stats, he strikes me as easily the best hero level caster in the game. He has a natural bound spell, which is very powerful, and can choose to have a +1 to cast. Added to this he also has a very handy (if situational) breath weapon, which exposes him to danger, but could make a huge difference to the game... especially if you have several of the blighters!

Frankly, I'd expect something like this to be well over a 100 points, something like 130-140. Having a large number of flexible bound spells is just that awesome. 3 of these (and the lord version) would generate 5 bound spells a turn, and have 12 powerdice (with +1 to cast) available. Those bound spells aren't stopped too easily either. I can't imagine many armies being able to stand up to this kind of magic.

I love the ideas though, so I'm rather torn as to how to suggest balancing it. I imagine I've missed something though, since I've not had the chance to read through things as much as I'd like.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

140 POINTS! he's only magic level one and the rituals arn't that powerful and easy to despell. The breath weapon is one use only and only str 4 so i can't see it doing much damage. So at 75 points he would cost 110 points at lvl 2.

About the 12 powerdice, to get that many would cost loads of points and you wouldn't have any fighty heros.

But having reread the lore of nagash it is very powerful (slightly OP IMO but I know its not up for disscussion). I think the +1 on spells of nagash will make the hero mages too powerful.

 

[Murderous Monkey]

It would cost 625 points.

This would buy you 12 power dice with +1 to cast, which is already a VERY strong magic phase. It would also generate 5 bound spells, which is huge, and 4 breath weapons. The breath weapons might be one use only (and I really like the idea of them) but that's enough to decimate one or two units of enemy infantry. Careful use of those breath weapons will all but guarantee you outnumber enemy infantry in crucial combats, and that can be fatal when much of this army causes fear. As I indicated before, 12 power dice backed up by 5 bound spells is almost overwhelming. How many armies can stop that, or even get close? Add in some of the powerful bound spells floating around the magic item selection and you've got a lot of goodies on offer.

Look at how much plenty of other armies pay for that kind of magic, these characters are not expensive before you throw in bound spells and breath weapons. I don't have my army books with me (except Vampire Counts and they're not exactly typical) but I remember Dark Elves and High Elves pay about 130 for a level 2 (with their respective +1 to cast/dispel) and about 270 for their lord choice.

If that's correct then they'd add up to 660 points, and have considerably less influence on the table (although don't get me wrong... they're still scary!). Sure, the elves have a nicer stat line, but most of the cost of a wizard is caught up in the magical power, and the proposed casters are absolute beasts. I cannot put enough emphasis on how much bound spells change a magic phase. Most armies won't have many (if any) dice left after the bound spells go off... and they'll always go off. If they ignore the bound spells that's 5d6 core troops going on the table, unless the other options are even better at the time (e.g. the free march/charge move). People complain about Vampire Count bunker armies... these guys could definitely do even better (especially given the automatic spell possession).


EDIT: Not sure if a ritual can be used more than once, but considering how the troop generation and movement spells are always going to be excellent, that's hardly an issue. Rerolls to wound is amazing for an army with units of troops who have Killing Blow as well!

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

Hmmm, fair point their Monkey (don't mind if I call you that do you?). I can see what you mean, but what would you suggest? Remove the +1 to cast? Even if you did, it would still be a very strong magic phase, and do remember its the Legion of NAGASH. I'l just repeat that: NAGASH. Get what im saying, he was the most powerful sorcerer ever, so it makes sense that the army itself is powerful magically. And besides, for the set-up your talking about, the army would have no combat characters, which would be ridiculous as the Legion has some of the coolest I've ever seen. I mean, the Revenant, Reaper, Dreadlord and Zenith Prince are just awesome! It would be a poor army to miss those out, not to mention very inefective in close combat.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

I can see what you meen Monkey, Thats a lot of magic and you could easyily drop one without a big impact and fit a powerful fighty hero in (Reaper or Zenith). If you come agant an army with 6DD (which is quite a few DD at 2000pts) then they would have to use 4 to stop rituals at a 50/50 chance (less with a shard) then would only have 2DD to stop the 10PD coming at them with some very mean spells (plus other bounds in the Nagash army). If they just leave the rituals they will never kill all of the troops in the army.

I would suggest dropping the +1 to cast and leave that for the Lord version.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Looking at the comments I would agree with dropping the +1 to cast on the Mortuary Priest as well.

 

[Murderous Monkey]

The +1 to cast is nice, but it is the bound spells that are most awesome. The book of Arkhan only has the effect of one of the four rituals, can run out and costs around 35 points? Even without the +1 to cast I'd still expect these guys to cost over 100, but maybe only 125(ish).

I'm not suggesting the legion shouldn't be awesome at magic... just that they should pay for it! This also has the effect of encouraging more balanced armies too.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

The fact that he does know all four Rituals does not mean he can cast all four - he is limited to one per magic phase. However I can see your point, but I think you are over costing him.

I would drop the +1 for casting and cost him at 90pts

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

I can second that.

 

[Kaladas Harkon]

I think the +1 is essential to an effective magic phase; if you're going to cost him at 90 without it, I'd gladly pay 130 with it.