Hexwraiths

[Aedin]

I have been playing these for some time now and thought I had better check some of my tactics before stretching my tactics into unknown waters.

First since they are fast cavalry I have been taking full advantage of the 12 inch vanguard move. Now what I do after this point seems to be more controversial to my opponents.

After the Vanguard move I then march my generals unit forward so he reenters the 12 inch undead march bubble and then march them 16 inches across my opponents battle line. Some opponents try to argue I cant do this because they were not in the 12 inches at the start of the movement phase. I say our army book don't say that no more. What do you guys think?

Now this is where I need to strengthen my understanding a bit. Lets say your deployed exactly 24 inches apart at the start of the game you vanguard for 12 then march 16 for a total of 28 inches. Now if your opponent is on regular infantry bases deployed 4 ranks deep the back of his unit is 27 inches away moving 1 inch past his unit to do the free flaming no armor saving str 5 hits. Pretty awesome right ! And your in the rear of his deployment zone.

However what if their dual ranked cavalry or 4 ranks deep of the next size bigger infantry base. This is further than 27 inches. So can you make them move basically placing the unit 1 inch behind the enemy unit similar to what fleeing troops or a remains in play template do if they finish a move on a unit or MUST you have that 1 inch with your actual movement?

My next scenario is this. What if your not in the generals 12 inch march arc and your behind the opponents unit. Obviously you don't want to ride forward allowing yourself to be left in the units line of sight for a charge. So can you ride into the unit 4 inches then basically turn around inside that unit and ride back out the rear of that unit. Basically counting yourself as passing through the unit for the hits?

Since the Vamp FAQ, I also find Lore of the Vampires more useful since I use these units since Van allows for basically more str 5 hits.

Finally I would like to ask all of you what you think of Hexwraiths. Please start some general discussion as well as answering my above scenarios.

 

[Melle]

scenario 1 i don't think is viable. the front of your base goes 1 inch behind the unit you move through, but your base is longer than 1 inch. simply using the free reform won't help, you need more than one inch, since you pivot around centre of base, leaving you too close unit still. maybe moving INTO his unit, reform and then move back out, parking in front, reform facing him, then van hels through it...

2.well, its basically what I suggested above, this I think is ok

haven't played HW yet, too fond of vargheists, so haven't got the points to spend. but I just bought 2 boxes to try them out

 

[midean]

Well I used a unit of 8 for the first time a couple days back and really liked them. Was planning on running 10 in the unit but had to shave 2 off to fit a second TG in the list. But I can see them being nice to take out the enemies chaff, flammable targets, heavily armored targets. Now I just need to figure out whether I want to run a single large unit or 2 units of 5?

I have been playing these for some time now and thought I had better check some of my tactics before stretching my tactics into unknown waters.

First since they are fast cavalry I have been taking full advantage of the 12 inch vanguard move. Now what I do after this point seems to be more controversial to my opponents.

After the Vanguard move I then march my generals unit forward so he reenters the 12 inch undead march bubble and then march them 16 inches across my opponents battle line. Some opponents try to argue I cant do this because they were not in the 12 inches at the start of the movement phase. I say our army book don't say that no more. What do you guys think?

I know what you mean. Seeing how the old book stated that the unit had to be within 12" at the start of the turn. But since they have removed that from the new book and you are fulfilling the rules as they are written, I would play it as such. Or until they FAQ it differently.It's hard for people to adjust to a new book/way of doing things.

Since the Vamp FAQ, I also find Lore of the Vampires more useful since I use these units since Van allows for basically more str 5 hits.

I find this a very useful tactic also. So all in all I find them nice to use in certain list. Most often in a fast moving bus list where your General is moving along with them. With out the General near by I can see them getting slowed down and not as useful.

 

[Elbisrever]

Well, first off, I'm a big fan of Hexies. I never played them before, but I think they are one of the most original and unique units in the game. Also the models rock!

Now to the topic itself. The marching-thing is viable the way you do it; nothing prevents you from not be able to march if the General 'arrived' later with his bubble march. As far as I know, units are moved one after another, and so if the General moves in range with his march-bubble, I see no reason why the Hexies couldn't march. Wouldn't make much sense either:"Move your incorporal butts!" "Yeah sorry boss, you arrived just a tad to late, can't do, srry..."

As said above, you prolly won't make the distance in one turn, so maybe better to just wait for turn 2 when you are sure that you can make it ( with help of the General's bubble etc)

My next scenario is this. What if your not in the generals 12 inch march arc and your behind the opponents unit. Obviously you don't want to ride forward allowing yourself to be left in the units line of sight for a charge. So can you ride into the unit 4 inches then basically turn around inside that unit and ride back out the rear of that unit. Basically counting yourself as passing through the unit for the hits?

You could do that, since the fast cav rule + the soulstrider rule makes that possible. You can also just make a sort of a quatre-circle move ( forward and then either left or right) through the enemy unit and end up at their flanks.

 

[Aedin]

So what if you only had enough movement to land on top of the unit would you be pushed the 1 inch in the clear like fleeing units or templates like purple sun?
If the answer is no then I guess a scenario were you deploy closer to one another or a unit with only 3 ranks of regularly sized infantry or one rank of cav is your best target to make it in one turn ?

I can most defiantly see just riding into the unit and then backing off leaving yourself in front of the opponent but that's a lot to chance expecting on Van to carry you the rest.

one unit of 10 is nice. However I find that two units of five do allot better and draw more magic out of your opponent since together as one unit they can be toasted by one spell. Also the extra drop is handy.

 

[Bounce]

I have been quite tempted to add a unit to my list. They can sit in front of my grave guard for shooting protection and then just run through the enemy and rear charge them for an extra 3 combat res plus some kills. Although i am not a big fan of the .gw models so thinking of getting horsemen of the apocalypse by reaper .

 

[Elbisrever]

Nope, you don't bounce through units like Fanatics. You really need to get out on the other side of the enemy unit, 1" clear of it. The reason the prolly did this is if you COULD bounce through, you could potentially bounce through the flanks of an entire battleline, giving you a ridiculous movement advantage ( still only attacking 1 unit though). This is why it also makes it a bit harder to have a unit of 10 Hexies complete their movement safely through an enemy and get 1" out on the other side. Running 2 units of 5 close behind eachother might still do the trick, plus you're giving your opponent 2 units to focus on instead of 1.

 

[Aedin]

You could use the free reform to face the rear of the unit with 10 Hexwraiths as long as the model you reform around dont move past his maximum limit and none of the others move more than double their limit. So the rear rank would be more than their movement allowance away but done legally. However I still like the opponent has multiple target theory with them.

Hmm now that you got me thinking about it you could use the free reform to move a horde of 30 this way. lol the looks you would get for bringing a horde of 30 hexwraiths.

 

[Melle]

you must be able to complete your move 1 inch away from your target unit, if you can't make that, I.e. as you say, land in middle of enemy unit you stop 1 inch in front, not gaining any hits on him

 

[Seelenberührer]

you must be able to complete your move 1 inch away from your target unit, if you can't make that, I.e. as you say, land in middle of enemy unit you stop 1 inch in front, not gaining any hits on him

Yeah, but Aedin's point is that you can use the free reform to get multiple ranks through, even if they didn't finish outside the unit, as long as the first rank did.

 

[Aedin]

you must be able to complete your move 1 inch away from your target unit, if you can't make that, I.e. as you say, land in middle of enemy unit you stop 1 inch in front, not gaining any hits on him

Yeah, but Aedin's point is that you can use the free reform to get multiple ranks through, even if they didn't finish outside the unit, as long as the first rank did.

This

 

[Melle]

yes i know, and I'd say no.
every model in the unit needs to finish 1 inch outside the target, else the move is illegal.
and this is what greatly limits big units of HW, hell, even a single rank of them will have a hard time passing through a unit, without General close, for their bases to be 1 inch away from target.
...'but cannot end their movement within 1 inch of another unit'
this states this. only having first rank through doesent meet the restrictions of soulstriders, unless it gets faqed, because having 2 or 5 ranks for that matter, getting pushed through this way, would be 'using it to greatly increase its movement' which is mentioned under fast cav rules.
but, if you end your move (back of your base) 1 inch away on first rank, you can swiftreform the whole unit into a single rank, hence all is legally outside 1 inch.
and THAT was what u meant.....ah well
needs to remember though, reforms are made from centre of unit, so the new front from 2 ranks into 1 would be half of the base back, centre needs to be same spot after reform, not behind it, as is the case if ending 'just' 1 inch away, then reform.

 

[Aedin]

But they would finish at least 1 inch away and further away every rank after that. Just like the BRB says as long as none of the models don't exceed double their movement value to do it.

 

[Melle]

edited my post heavily while you replied
and exceeding double movement value takes into account the move also, not only the reform.
point is, you never get 'pushed' 1 inch away with soulstrider, you need the movement through for all models, else you stop 1 inch in front.

 

[eggsPR]

You can always move the hexwraiths into the enemy unit through the front, then move them out back from where you came.

Nothing states something like "if moved through a right flank, they must exit the opposite left flank" or "enter front rank, exit rear rank" or "you can enter the front rank, then can turn and exit the right or left flank, but not back where you came".

It just states move through. And a sweeping motion like a "<" or "^" or "U" motion. If my hex models touch his models in the remaining models, and i stop moving 1" inch from him and i havent exceeded double my movememt, u best believe he's taking S5 hits.

All this definition of "through" stuff is tiresome. Next up, we'll be discussing the magic bullet that went into and out of JFK.

Of course I mean all this in a very light-hearted fashion . And yes, if this was FAQ'ed it'd be soooo much better

 

[midean]

So the real limiting facter that you have to watch out for when playing with or against HW is their total movement. Just need to make sure at the end of their movement no model exceeded double their allowance.

 

[Bullhax]

This is all very promissing! I guess my next list will be a Vanhel's and Hexwraith heavy list..!

First of all play it like Aedin describes, in the magic phase use low level death snipers too draw out DD, then try to get off both Vanhel's and book of arkhan in one turn to rake up the kill count A bit cheesy but will be funny as hell to play!

Oh and while were at it, there isn't anything that would stop me from using both Vanhel's and the book on the same unit in the same magic phase is there?

 

[Elbisrever]

Exactly. Now, just a few ground rules when using Hexies:

- Use your pre-measure well. Keep track of the March Bubble, and make sure your HW can finish their move. Also, think ahead, and know where your general and the HW prolly will be the next turn.
- In combination with the first, make sure you don't move a Wraith over double it's movement. To give an example:
* A unit of HW marches 12", goes through an enemy unit and wishes to turn around and change formation, any HW can only move up to 4" max.

- A unit of HW MUST end their move 1" away from the enemy when passing through said enemy unit. This 1" is included in their max move distance ( for example, 1" of the 16" when marching). For this reason smaller units of HW will prolly be a bit easier to use.

All in all, our Hexies take some thoughts and time to use correctly, but I think they can be a very good unit.

 

[Elbisrever]

@ Bullhax:

As far as I know, thanks to the FAQ you can pull that off. So yes, effectively you can hurt an enemy unit 3 times in one turn.

 

[Drakhaol Von Carstein]

If we can now soulstride through a unit during the magic phase per the FAQ, is it still illegal to use the soulstride to charge through an enemy unit to get into contact with another enemy unit?

 

[Elbisrever]

Well, you can't charge during the magic phase due to Van's anymore. Also, I you would wanna charge through a unit to the unit behind it, I'm not really sure if you have Line of Sight to the second unit, since the first one could be blocking it. But I'm not sure if Cav models can look 'over' infantry units. Someone else can prolly better clarify this.

 

[Bullhax]

Well, you can't charge during the magic phase due to Van's anymore. Also, I you would wanna charge through a unit to the unit behind it, I'm not really sure if you have Line of Sight to the second unit, since the first one could be blocking it. But I'm not sure if Cav models can look 'over' infantry units. Someone else can prolly better clarify this.

Cav does have LOS on most infantry yes, and if you're in doubt, you have to get to the eyesight level of the HW's and have a look you need to see 50% or more of the models you're aiming for.. But as stated it can not be done with Vanhel's.
So it would only be possible in the charge phase of the movement phase and I don't think the soulstrider rule will kick in here as it only works in the "remaining moves" subphase.

 

[eggsPR]

You charge through an enemy unit(s) to fight another unit, same as the way a flier would do. This applies to impassable/buildings as well.

But you can't end your movement on top of another enemy that you charged "through".

The hexwraiths do NOT hurt those units bc when they moved through them it was NOT in the remaining moves subphase.



Hope this helps.

 

[Elbisrever]

^ Correct

 

[Aedin]

You cant charge through one unit to attack another. All such move through attempts must be made against unengaged units in the remaining moves sub-phase. Which is well after declare and move chargers.