How do you feel so far about the new Empire book?

[Chaos_Born]

Oh yes, the empire have extra long range cannons don't they? More than once I have played dwarves who have deployed cannons on flanks to attempt this and just end up out of range of valuable targets.

Still though, would a hellstorm or hellblaster not work out better? Anyone fancy doing some mathhammer?

 

[jim_of_the_dead]

i remember when the steam tank was first released. i never played a game with it so i can profess to know the old rules in 4th/5th edition or whenever it came out, but i do remember reading a battle report on it, and got the impression of it being a pretty unreliable but potentially random and deadly rare choice. it was prone to jamming and running out of steam halfway across the battlefield and breaking down a lot, which is how i see a technologically advanced piece of machinery engineered in the old world to be really so it seeemed pretty cool. i think it got its rules screwed up and became too powerful in the last edition or two. empire armies were always about tactical balance , youd have you archers/crossbowmen/riflemen, and your blocks of halbediers and your knights and your outriders/pistoliers . the army had one of the nicest balances choice wise , then ogre kingdoms came out and warhammer started getting beefed up with steroids and things like monstrous infantry came out, but some armies like empire were left behind in that sense and didnt have an equivalent choice something to stand toe to toe, even undead in that respect. the strongest infantry unit we used ot have was mummies but they got completely destroyed when the division split into tk . with empire maybe greatswords are suposed to be their answer to monstrous infantry but even they seem pretty weak they are just men with big swords. so the point im making is they havent kept the empire up to date enough with all their other releases.
and now here we are again in 8th edition and they are going through all the races adding these huge great centrepiece rare choices like the mortis engine, the big ogre thingy, the araknid spider thingy for orcs and goblins. im not saying its a bad thing or good thing but if they are developing the new army rules and making tweaks to incorporate these new big chariot/mount type units which cause synergies etc im sure they are going to screw up somewhere along the way .

what id like to see for empire to make them be able to stand toe to toe with things like rat ogres and ogres and trolls and crypt horrors is a unit of imperial ogres . they used to have them. make them a core choice and fairly cheap. you cant blame an army for standing back and bunkering around its warmachines if it knows it cant stand toe to toe with its enemy.

 

[Chaos_Born]

You want monstrous empire stuff. That's a good suggestion - Perhaps some kind of monstrous cavalry, maybe with a horse/mythical creature hybrid mount? That would be really cool...

 

[Zhatan]

You want monstrous empire stuff. That's a good suggestion - Perhaps some kind of monstrous cavalry, maybe with a horse/mythical creature hybrid mount? That would be really cool...

No

 

[Johnny-Crass]

You want monstrous empire stuff. That's a good suggestion - Perhaps some kind of monstrous cavalry, maybe with a horse/mythical creature hybrid mount? That would be really cool...

No

Agreed :lol:

You can keep your chicken riders. Give me back the days of blackpowder!

 

[Noobafrass]

The Empire has for a while been a top contender as a 2nd army choice for me, but the chicken riders etc actually turn me off (not knowing anything about their gameplay)

 

[Von Calyptra]

I don't see why they should put you off the whole army. If you don't like them, don't take them.

 

[Rorschach]

C'mon they're chocobos.. everyone love chocobos, right? XD

 

[Azakael]

C'mon they're chocobos.. everyone love chocobos, right? XD

Wark, Wark, Mo Fo!!!

Actually, if I was a better sculptor, I'd do a unit of Chocobo Knights for giggles and grins.

That said, I'm not too disappointed with the new list. I think there a few things I didn't like, but well... I'd have to look at the list. Kinda tied up at work to do so. Has to wait for me to get home.

 

[Chaos_Born]

Yes. Chocobo knights for the win! Anyone fancy doing an FFX style list with machina cannons and summoner battle wizards. Just need a way to work aeons in and it'll be sorted...

 

[robtion]

Guess I'm the odd one out as I actually love the Demigryph 'bird knights' (not being sarcastic). I think all of the new Empire models are very cool.

As for rules I haven't seen them but hope they lost most of their unique army specific magic items and banners like we did to keep an even playing field.

 

[Jagged_Dragon]

i like a lot of the new models, but as absolutely no one near me plays empire whatsoever i have no idea what the changes mean or affect gameplay.

love the chicken knights, but i find the actual models a bit lacking. looks like 3 basic birds, of which 2 have bad poses (head down bird looks terrible imo), im sure they can be converted, but im not a fan of the birds other than their armour plates.

 

[tinfish]

I like the bird knights, shame they didn't make the models as muscular as they are shown to be in the art.
I also like the Hellblaster I actually like the Helstrom too in all honesty, should always have worked like that.
I don't forsee any big changes, I intend to experiment with most of the new things, see what happens.

I was surprised the Swordsmen lost some initiative though and I am pretty sure that considering how they now work, Flagellants are way to expensive, not to mention I cannot "core" them anymore, bang goes that theme

 

[TCM]

The Empire was the first army I started wit back in 2000 Since it was a part of the "starter kit" the Empire and the Orcs, a friend of mine took the Orcs.
Any way the new Empire book has made me feel they've over priced a lot of things; Swordsmen, Mortar and Cannons for instance. The Mortar both losing one strenght and going up in price, only because it now hits everything under the template I feel is too much.
The pricing of the freecompany is odd compared to the spearmen but alright not too much of a difference.
I've tried to count the costs of some old armies I've played with and the new costs forces me to take out a regiment too keep to the costs somethimes even more.
The Steamtank no problem never used it since one couldn't customize it anylonger.
The Hellblaster is ok. the Hellroket thingy is out since I can't rely on it anymore.
The Knight's are ok. The new Reiksguards I feel are veird they could have done something else.
I've never agreed with the cavalry hammer of the White Wolf Knights becoming Greatweapons but now it's a smaller issue since they are once again +2S weapons thanks to the core rules.
The Greatswords no longer needing to compete for a magical standard is great well worth the points increase in my opining though the core units losing the one magical standard they could compete for is not so good since the most of them has become more expensive.
The new rules for the Captains and Generals are good and some what logical, they are the people to make the men hold the line.
The engineers once again getting access to magical stuff is as it should be; the fluff about them not beliving in magic in the previous edition... heck magick is all around them on the battlefields.
I feel the Hochland Longrifle is too expensive to take any more; I've hit and wounded so few of my choise targets with them so I'll probably no longer bother with them.
The Pistoliers with these new rules I guess will be great, the Outriders are ok.
The Flagellants I feel is too expensive and they didn't get back their T4, still T3, still yet about the flagellants in the previous version you knew that you'd get something out of the sacrifice now it's more up with the dice gods since in the previous version a d3 was rolled so many died and then you checked the table about what ability they got if you wished now you roll a d6 and then have to wound that many and first after that you get to check the revised table and this they do every turn not when you wish to so they can kill of them selves even if you'd not wish them to try to do a sacrifise. So flagellants no more than one unit now most probably not a horde more like tops 15 possibly without the leader.
The new Chariots are somewhat intresting, the Hysh one is more intresting since when it's working it's guaranteed to do something, the other one has a possiblity to roll a one and if the target isn't something with the fly ability it just start to rain nothing else.

So to summarize The Empire is still somewhat intresting but much less so compared to the Vampire Counts since one need to change once game play quite a bit and thus put out quite a bit of money to get a "functioning" army.

 

[Yorga]

But cannons are sooo expensive now

Not really that expensive when you consider what they can earn you. A cannon can kill a 500 point Vampire Lord on a Dragon in ONE shot. I'd say that is 120 points well spent. Most Empire players are still fielding 2 cannons I would wager.

Empire as an all Cav army with a couple of cannons is daunting. Almost no way for our VC to overcome that 1+ armor save. Except maybe 2 Terrorgheist which, again, the cannon can see off in a single shot. How many 120 point units do we have that can reliable see off twice their point value in a single turn?

 

[Chaos_Born]

I wouldn't say that the cannons could reliably kill twice their points in a single turn, since most monsters that price would have 5/6 wounds. I would say that two cannons working together could net their points back in one turn however, and double them over the course of a battle. They are in no way overpriced at 120 points. 120 is probably about right for a normal 48" range cannon, and empire get 12" extra range, just to make it harder to hide from them

 

[Johnny-Crass]

If I was a Empire player I would be running a cannon and two mortars with Lore of Shadow. Works nicely in the knight star also.


P.S does anyone else find it funny 8th ed was supposed to be the edition for infantry and it is cav stars that are becoming popular now? :lol:

 

[Yorga]

It is interesting. I think stomps, thunderstomps and things like the 13th spell have driven people back to the ponies. That and armor saves of 1+ or 2+.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Not seeing many cav stars, seen one high elf one loaded with front rank characters get chopped to bits by GG in 1 turn of combat.....

I find With Cav stars that unless you break what you hit it will end up killing you right after as their entire army smashes you in the flanks.... painful to watch.



Got to admit I am loving the Warrior Priests and witch hunters now, I just miss the old steam tank....
I'm still ranting about toughness 6 damn it..... It makes no sense! :slapface:

 

[Chaos_Born]

Why does it make no sense? I had a big discussion with a local empire player about this back when the book first came out, and I just can't see why T6 isn't enough

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Allot of things are strength 6, appart from great weapon foes like GG and ogres but Khorn Jugger Riders etc.

The point is not that though, the point is war machines like cannons are toughness 7.
A steam tank is that same war machine surrounded by a thick steel hull..... At least make it the same, T7 or 8 I would not of minded but 6 is just daft.
I(t has almost halved the stat.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I will tell you why it is toughness 6. Because a warsphinx with a 1+ save and random movement would of been broken

 

[Chaos_Born]

We came to the conclusion that the T6 is quite simply because the Stank is hollow. There needs to be a substantial difference between the big solid block of marble and a hollow box. Admittedly it is a heavily supported box, but there will be panels with nothing behind them. The armour on the outside is heavy yes, but that's where the 1+ armour save comes in.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Also the exposed engine itself is fragile as are its wheel axles and such.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

You can not compare 2 different points cost models when one has 2 versions of which one can fly, and is a combat monster with heroic killing blow and a character mount to a mobile cannon with an armour save.
The Sphinx in whatever form has toughness 8, possible breath weapon, can have wounds healed back by their armies main lore and thunder stomp, they have base size in common, that is all.


How about next we compare the Arachnarok to a terror gheist?

The engine is metal lined and hard to get to not to mention the wheels have thick steel covers and rims to protect them, want to try and hack, through a few inches of steel?... Be my guest.
A Cannon is a wooden frame, a tank is a wood and metal frame, extra strength does not make things weaker.....

Armour is not the issue, the point is a cannon as standard is toughness 7, it does not suddenly downgrade because you give it an armour save.