Ideas vs new lizards?

[Dbunibe]

So I've got a buddy who builds the most unfriendly lists he can and always tailors for his opponent. He just got the new lizards boom today and we are having a game (prob 3k) on Saturday. I play VC, Ogres, and empire. He will come with 3 lists, 1 for each of my armies and wait to pick which he's using until he sees what I'm playing.

I normally build fun themed lists, but I'd like to give him a taste of his own medicine this time. What would you all take bs the new lizards? What should I expect to see?

I was thinking of taking a black knight bus with a lord with sword of bloodshed, potion of strength, quickblood and red fury to go with them Good idea? Bad? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[bigbadbat]

If he's truly a lizard man mean guy list builder, hell bring 8-10 units of skinks skirmishes. Hell keep your bus from going anywhere and double flee all day long. 160 poison shots will eradicate your bus or anything you bring.
Go max ethereal. Units of wraiths, solo banshees, spirit hosts, and 3 Hexwraiths units.

 

[The Sun King]

And do not leave home without a level 4 Death Master Necromancer. Cast Purple Sun all day long and watch him despair! Low initiative is really the achilles heel of LM and you should use that against him at every opportunity.

With that much poison going around I would leave the TG's at home btw.

If he's a good list builder you'll see at least 2-3 Stegadons with Sharpened horns. Hexwraiths should be able to deal with that sort of nonesense.

 

[Dbunibe]

Yeah I'll not be bringing TGs to this party. I usually rock 2 of them but not against lizards

 

[Noobafrass]

Sounds like a real friendly player....

 

[badfox7]

Try to kill things like the troglodons and jungle swarms first so he doesn't get to benifit from the buffs given by them.

 

[AngryAngel]

Hmm...had a player like that at my FLGS, took a particular list against him and after the loss, i didn't see him for a month. Try something like this:

Vampire Lord - 519pts
LVL 4
Black Periapt, Talisman of Endurance
Heavy Armor, shield
Dark Acolyte, master of the black arts, lore of vamps

Master Deathromancer - 225pts
Dispel scroll

Necromancer - 230pts
Book of Arkhan
Corpse cart with balefire upgrade

5 (yes, you read that right) Tomb banshee characters

44 Skeleton warriors - 275pts
Full command
Screaming banner

32 Crypt Ghouls - 330pts
Crypt Ghast

20 zombies - 65pts
Musician

2x5 Dire Wolves - 40pts each

Mortis engine - 240pts
Blasphemous tomb

30 Grave Guard - 440pts
Full Command, great weapons
Banner of the Barrows



The Vamp Lord goes in the GG for obvious reasons. The Deathromancer goes in the zombie bunker (purple sun will be your friend AAAALLLLLLL day long). The banshees are key. If he has alot of small units, plop them down piecemeal and screen/scream with em. If he has a bunch of monsters or powerful blocks, rank up the skeletons 5 wide and deep-as-forever, then put ALL 5 banshees in the front rank of them. Make sure you take charges from the monsters with them. The unit will be immune to anything the enemy can do to it with exception of magical attacks. And the unit will be punching 5 scream attacks into anything it encounters. Finally, between the mortis engine, the corpse cart, the magic-vamp and the deathromancer feeding you power dice...you should own the magic phase. With their low initiative, the grave guard will actually benefit from the corpse cart ASF to counter their great weapons.

It's dirty, but it should work.

 

[Slightlychris]

I can see why taking the charge is okay with one less turn till IONs and magic support, but with your banshee buss wouldn't charging be better? Since you can only scream on your turn? With no incoming magic attacks you aren't being hurt badly anyway.

 

[AngryAngel]

True statement all around. But the beauty of the banshee bus is that without magic attacks, it's basically immune to anything you can do to it. So even if his big griblie stegadon charges, it will do effectively nothing, then you scream into it next turn.

And don't ask me why, but as soon as you say "5 screams", everyone freaks and avoids it like the plague, kinda like when you say "poison" to a monster player...nevermind the fact that banshee screams aren't nearly as powerful as gheist screams. It gives you a flank guard unit to your grave guard bus that they will have an irrational fear of. Always good to have control of the board like that. So you have a unit the player will be wary of (ghouls - poison), a unit they are FREAKED about (banshee bus), and a unit they should ACTUALLY fear but probably don't (grave guard). You'll push him all over the board and by the time he figures out what's going on...you're mopping up.

 

[Count Edmund Von Redbeard]

Vampire Lord - 519pts
LVL 4
Black Periapt, Talisman of Endurance
Heavy Armor, shield
Dark Acolyte, master of the black arts, lore of vamps

Master Deathromancer - 225pts
Dispel scroll

Necromancer - 230pts
Book of Arkhan
Corpse cart with balefire upgrade

5 (yes, you read that right) Tomb banshee

How are you taking 700+pts of Lords and 700+pts of heroes in an army that's roughly 2500pts?

 

[The Sun King]

I suppose the list is 3.000 points. The core is 750 on the nose so the list should be legal(although the list in total is only 2879 points so you got some more points to spend).

 

[Count Edmund Von Redbeard]

My bad, that's what I get for quickly added up the total points in my head. Although in my experiance, having nearly half your points in lords/heroes (which I have done) rarely seems to work.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

I agree. Half the army in characters is not easy to play. But with vampires being really good, Banshees being really good, and Master Necro's being really cheap for a level 4 it's hard to not be tempted to blow your points on sweet characters.

 

[Swaiper]

How does this double flee tactic work anyway?

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Well we can't do it because we can't flee. but with other armies.

You keep 2 chaff units in front of a unit that you don't want getting charged. you can also do it to force an enemy unit into a bad position. But you declare a charge on chaff unit 1 and it flees. You then take a LD test to redeclare your charge, and lets say you pass. You then charge the second unit of chaff which also flees. You can only redeclare a charge once per turn thus you are stuck moving forward d6 inches.

 

[Swaiper]

Sure but how would that work with skinks? how do you position them effectively with only 12 inch range? I mean the second you can reach anything youre set up to be charged :S. Unless you get some uber luxury setup where uve surrounded the enemy with skinks and flee with a few while the others can still reach...

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Simply put, You have 4 units of skinks close-ish to eachother. Your opponent charges 1 and you flee with that unit. They redirect to charge a second, and you flee with that unit also. Then you have 2 units left who are close to the enemy. You get your 6" move and attempt to get out of their charge arc. This then forces them to either reform or try to get out of the way. Then you can just dance around them till they either die or get tired of your skinks and leave. Then your other 2 units should be able to reform seeing as how they will probably be close to your general or BSB. Now you have 1 unit that you don't have to deal with. The double flee is great for many purposes. Like I said before, it is a great screening tactic. It's great for redirecting. It's great for stalling a unit.

 

[Swaiper]

Hmm ok thank you for the clarification!

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Oh not a problem! I've actually never done it, just read about it and had it done to me. There may be more logic behind it somewhere that I don't know and maybe someone else would be able to clarify it a bit better *cough* anyone else *cough*

 

[The Sun King]

Pretty risky fleeing with Skinks now that they are only Ld 5.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Is slaan a large target? Even if he's not just try to get your general within 12! then you have yourself LD 10 cold blooded! Basically like saying unbreakable, especially if the BSB is close by!

 

[The Sun King]

The Slaan is not a large target and he will often be kept safe behind your battle line while you have a lot of low Ld units on the flanks...

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Wait, Why not just use the Level 4 deathcro and pop the skinks? I mean without them buggers then Kroak needs to come to you.

 

[The Sun King]

That would be easiest yes
A unit of vargs is also bad news for flying skinks.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Lol yeah that would help!