Invocation of Nehek on Blood Knights

[Darkos]

Anyone have access to the book in another language? GW's editing staff and their grasp of the English language isn't very good.

I bet thw spanish or french books would clear this up easily.

I own the spanish one. It says "Vampiric Models gain only one wound". We are on the same debate here...

 

[veelckoo]

What is there to debate? For now rules are clear. Unit is a unit model is a model. Until errata you CAN raise multiple blood knights.
Edit: wording.

 

[N.I.B]

I don't think it matters - they still cost twice of Black Knights, are forced to overrun, and you can't heal them in the combat phase through the Blooddrinker sword.

 

[Alark]

When will the errata be out?

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

Was it obvious what they meant with the greedy fist working with ranged attacks? I think we all should have realized then that we can't just assume what GW intended.

Think about it. If the ogre kingdoms have a cheap trick like that why can't we raise more than 1 blood knights?

For not talking about the DE item of "all doubles miscast", the Lizardmen item "i throw to you my own miscast" (any range) or the Engine of gods, the infamous ogre's Hellheart, the dwarves anvil (no, no, this is not magic, you can't dispel) or the full range of overpowered creatures in other armies: war hydra, abomination of the pit or steam tank, for example...

The war hydra is not overpowered . Raising blodknights back at 1+ caster level is overpowered. Why does everyone call the war hydra overpowered its easy to take out with one TG scream

 

[N.I.B]

The war hydra is not overpowered . Raising blodknights back at 1+ caster level is overpowered. Why does everyone call the war hydra overpowered its easy to take out with one TG scream

Are you trolling? The War Hydra is about as OP as anything in the game. And it only suffers 2.5 wounds on average from a Deathshriek, and that is when all factors are in favour of the Terrogheist player (stupid Hydra player moves it out of generals Ld, doesn't shoot or magic the Terrorgheist to strip it from wounds).

 

[Zanthor]

When I started reading this thread, I was totally against raising multiple Blood Knights. However, by RAW, and the fact that cavalry were previously under-powered, I think that the FAQ will end up siding with raising multiples. For multi-wound vampiric units, you'll be limited to adding either 0 or 1 models to the unit. But who knows, FAQ's surprise us all the time. Until then, around here at tournaments people play as RAW unless things are completely contradictory.

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

The war hydra is not overpowered . Raising blodknights back at 1+ caster level is overpowered. Why does everyone call the war hydra overpowered its easy to take out with one TG scream

Are you trolling? The War Hydra is about as OP as anything in the game. And it only suffers 2.5 wounds on average from a Deathshriek, and that is when all factors are in favour of the Terrogheist player (stupid Hydra player moves it out of generals Ld, doesn't shoot or magic the Terrorgheist to strip it from wounds).

Not trolling. IMh0 hydra is good value for points not overpowered. Any unit that can be held incheck with simple spirit hosts or any ethereal is not OP. Now other armies may indeed call the hydra OP but us vamps can deal with easy (single spirit host/hexwraiths/wraiths.

 

[Yorga]

Not trolling. IMh0 hydra is good value for points not overpowered. Any unit that can be held incheck with simple spirit hosts or any ethereal is not OP. Now other armies may indeed call the hydra OP but us vamps can deal with easy (single spirit host/hexwraiths/wraiths.

OP is not measured by how a certain unit stands up against one army, it is how it works against the majority armies. Warhammmer is all about rock, paper and scissors but certain things tend to be rock and paper. I personally don't understand why people get so worked up against the Hellpit Abomination. Mine will be taking the magic attacks upgrade from now on.

 

[veelckoo]

Not trolling. IMh0 hydra is good value for points not overpowered. Any unit that can be held incheck with simple spirit hosts or any ethereal is not OP. Now other armies may indeed call the hydra OP but us vamps can deal with easy (single spirit host/hexwraiths/wraiths.

Yeah, right - good value for points. Compare vargulf.
And not every army has etheral unit to tie hydra in combat.
It may be easy to deal with by VC but it does not change the fact that hydra is easily most broken unit in the entaire game - along with DE pendant lord on pegasus.

 

[Alark]

Was it obvious what they meant with the greedy fist working with ranged attacks? I think we all should have realized then that we can't just assume what GW intended.

Think about it. If the ogre kingdoms have a cheap trick like that why can't we raise more than 1 blood knights?

I completly agree with the above. If other armies have broken things why cant we raise back 5 blood knights a turn? Im playing with the RAW for now in my store, yeah its dirty but if your opponents can do overpowered things why cant we?

 

[Count Darvaleth]

This is one of those way OP rules that we pull out when your opponent is being a complete dick. When they come at you with a thousand Slaves in a 2400 point game, for example, or try to squash four Hydras into a friendly game.

When my opponent makes the decision to go hardcore RAW, they will most certainly regret it. Their sleepless nights will be forever tortured by images of indestructible Blood Knights roaming the board, accompanied by cackling laughter.

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

Not trolling. IMh0 hydra is good value for points not overpowered. Any unit that can be held incheck with simple spirit hosts or any ethereal is not OP. Now other armies may indeed call the hydra OP but us vamps can deal with easy (single spirit host/hexwraiths/wraiths.

Yeah, right - good value for points. Compare vargulf.
And not every army has etheral unit to tie hydra in combat.
It may be easy to deal with by VC but it does not change the fact that hydra is easily most broken unit in the entaire game - along with DE pendant lord on pegasus.

If you read my post you will see I said most other armies can call hdra OP but not VC. I agree the varghulf is over priced. You cannot call the dreadlord on peg with POK broken especially when compared with a vamp lord with quickblood,redfury sword of bloodshed plus a ward of some sort (now that is broken as hell)

 

[veelckoo]

If you read my post you will see I said most other armies can call hdra OP but not VC. I agree the varghulf is over priced. You cannot call the dreadlord on peg with POK broken especially when compared with a vamp lord with quickblood,redfury sword of bloodshed plus a ward of some sort (now that is broken as hell)

I read your post. If you read mine wou will see that "It may be easy to deal with by VC but it does not change the fact that hydra is easily most broken unit in the entaire game".
And if you compare our combat vampire lord to pendant dreadlord then you must realize how easy to kill vampire is - even with his "best" ward 4+. And still Dreadlord is half the points of Vampire Lord.
That's what I call good value for points.

 

[Mad 'At]

PoK is the second most broken thing in the game. 35pts for an ward save that is better than 4+ against most attacks. And combined with a dreadlord on peg with Crown of Command it is just ridiculous. Equipped like that that dreadlord can be charged against anything in the game and survive.

The most broken thing is Fozzrik's Folding Fortress.

I for one hope that GW won't balacne out OP stuff like Dark Elves by making other armies equally OP. Especially since this was not the case with the other 8th edition books. I want a balanced game without stupidly over powered stuff.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Come on, guys, this is a discussion about the raising of Blood Knights, not about over-powered Tecli- ah-hem units. Let's try and keep it civil, eh?

When this is eventually FAQ'd, we will either nod our heads in assent and move on as normal, or our jaws will drop down to the floor and VC will be instantly shot up to beyond even the hallowed glory-days of magical dominance in 7th ed, and further even than the S7 T6 Vampire Lords of ancient history. I mean, if Blood Knights could be raised faster than one per casting of IoN, I'd imagine every single competitive list out there would be stuffed with as many Blood Knights as possible, with several mounted IoN-using characters in the unit as well. It'd just be game-breaking.

Let's hope that GW have some sense and don't make VC the object of gross unwavering hatred by every warhammer player in the world.

... it'd be pretty hilarious, though. :rofl2:

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

If you read my post you will see I said most other armies can call hdra OP but not VC. I agree the varghulf is over priced. You cannot call the dreadlord on peg with POK broken especially when compared with a vamp lord with quickblood,redfury sword of bloodshed plus a ward of some sort (now that is broken as hell)

I read your post. If you read mine wou will see that "It may be easy to deal with by VC but it does not change the fact that hydra is easily most broken unit in the entaire game".
And if you compare our combat vampire lord to pendant dreadlord then you must realize how easy to kill vampire is - even with his "best" ward 4+. And still Dreadlord is half the points of Vampire Lord.
That's what I call good value for points.

Hydra and dread on peg are very good not broken.

anyway back on topic raising blood knights 1 + wizard level would be broken. Most VC players i know only take 5. Lets say these 5 charge a unit and do regular damage then the unit gets lucky and kills 4 bloodknights next magic phase a successful casting of INVO sees the unit at full strength again that is stupid. now mix that with larger units of bloodknights and they are unkillable (more so then the dread on a peg)

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Of course, this ALSO raises that timeless issue which is particularly important when concerning Knights and IoN...

Does a model which has been resurrected into a unit which has charged in the previous movement phase also count as charging?

Now, for most units this doesn't matter, but when you take lances into account...

Discuss.

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

Of course, this ALSO raises that timeless issue which is particularly important when concerning Knights and IoN...

Does a model which has been resurrected into a unit which has charged in the previous movement phase also count as charging?

Now, for most units this doesn't matter, but when you take lances into account...

Discuss.

Nice redirect there No idea logically they wouldnt have the momentum of the charge as they were raised after the charge. But GW are crazy with the rules (skelies being poisoned)

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Well you can debate RAI all you like, but there simply are no RAI. It isn't covered specifically in any rule AFAIK, so you just have to follow RAW and give them their lance bonus, unless it's FAQ'd.

 

[Yanda]

Of course, this ALSO raises that timeless issue which is particularly important when concerning Knights and IoN...

Does a model which has been resurrected into a unit which has charged in the previous movement phase also count as charging?

Now, for most units this doesn't matter, but when you take lances into account...

Discuss.

The Unit still Charged, so Yes models raised in the Magic phase would also get to attack, and the unit charged so imho there good to go.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

The Unit still Charged, so Yes models raised in the Magic phase would also get to attack, and the unit charged so imho there good to go.

The unit charged, yes, but the individual models? They did not charge. But their unit charged; do they count as charging?

Not saying I disagree with you, here; I feel that they would count as charging, but I'm just playing devil's advocate and making sure there are no possible arguments for not giving the raised models their charge bonuses.

EDIT: I remember the real issue used to be whether or not models raised by the Blood Drinker get to fight within the same combat phase if they are striking in initiative order, and whether or not they got charging bonuses. Now that was a tricky one.

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

and people call the hydra OP

 

[Count Darvaleth]

and people call the hydra OP

Pladvoncarstein, I have already asked that everyone remain on topic and this is clearly an indirect stab at users who were earlier arguing, off-topic, that the hydra is over-powered. Back on topic!


As for the Blood Knight situation, does anybody know how soon GW normally releases an FAQ? Hopefully they will address this issue. Is there a way we can send them this point to answer? I'm fairly sure we've done something like it in the past.

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

sorry man was a joke hench the wink.

Im sure I heard someone the other say there was an email address you can send questions to. Cannot remember where I saw that though. Hopefully will be realeased soon and then our oponents wont have to fear masses of bloodknights:devil2: