Master Necromancers - Our go-to Lord?

[Count Darvaleth]

Hiya,

Having read through our lovely new book (very, VERY lovely) I have noticed that our magic has been empowered without being over-powered or over-complicated. In 7th ed we could dominate magic, then in 8th we found ourselves lacking power dice. Now we DON'T NEED the power dice, as all of our buff spells affect every unit within a certain range. Also, IoN is much more powerful.

Considering the above, and the 8th ed requirement of a level 3 or 4 to provide magical defence, I can see the Master Necromancer becoming very, very popular. Why? It's fairly simple:

1) He's cheap. And I mean cheap. Heck he costs less than I used to spend on my Lord's powers and magic items.

2) He comes as a Level 3 as standard, with the option to become level 4 as an upgrade. This is much better than our vampiric friends, who are level 1 and need to pay many points to get up to these lofty magical heights.

3) He's really, really cheap. For a level 3 wizard it's almost a scandal that we get him so cheaply.

4) With their unique upgrade, the Master Necromancer can raise Skeletons beyond starting size. This, coupled with how fast Zombies are raised and the bubble-effect of IoN, make a Master Necromancer in a central formation of Undead units INCREDIBLE. The tactic of raising vast hordes every turn has become viable once again.

5) Did I mention he's cheap?

I think this guy, whilst not as cool as my poor Ghoul King on Terrorgheist, may take the pudding for the majority of my lists. And besides, he's so freakin' cheap you could field a non-monster-mounted Vampire Lord or Ghoul King alongside him fairly easily in 2000pts.

What do you think? Anybody agree/disagree? Any combos you've spotted that would work well? Anything you wanted to discuss about our Lord choices/the Master Necromancer in general? Anything you have to say would be greatly appreciated, as always.

~ Darvy

 

[Bishop]

Hiya,

Having read through our lovely new book (very, VERY lovely) I have noticed that our magic has been empowered without being over-powered or over-complicated. In 7th ed we could dominate magic, then in 8th we found ourselves lacking power dice. Now we DON'T NEED the power dice, as all of our buff spells affect every unit within a certain range. Also, IoN is much more powerful.

Considering the above, and the 8th ed requirement of a level 3 or 4 to provide magical defence, I can see the Master Necromancer becoming very, very popular. Why? It's fairly simple:

1) He's cheap. And I mean cheap. Heck he costs less than I used to spend on my Lord's powers and magic items.

2) He comes as a Level 3 as standard, with the option to become level 4 as an upgrade. This is much better than our vampiric friends, who are level 1 and need to pay many points to get up to these lofty magical heights.

3) He's really, really cheap. For a level 3 wizard it's almost a scandal that we get him so cheaply.

4) With their unique upgrade, the Master Necromancer can raise Skeletons beyond starting size. This, coupled with how fast Zombies are raised and the bubble-effect of IoN, make a Master Necromancer in a central formation of Undead units INCREDIBLE. The tactic of raising vast hordes every turn has become viable once again.

5) Did I mention he's cheap?

I think this guy, whilst not as cool as my poor Ghoul King on Terrorgheist, may take the pudding for the majority of my lists. And besides, he's so freakin' cheap you could field a non-monster-mounted Vampire Lord or Ghoul King alongside him fairly easily in 2000pts.

What do you think? Anybody agree/disagree? Any combos you've spotted that would work well? Anything you wanted to discuss about our Lord choices/the Master Necromancer in general? Anything you have to say would be greatly appreciated, as always.

~ Darvy

I haven't managed to pick up the new book yet. But, from what you have described it certainly seems like a decent option.

I played mostly Skeletons back in 6th, so I have PILES of dem bones! Sounds like the Master Necro will be a no-brainer choice for me at least.

 

[Pyre]

I'm considering trying a list at 2500 running both a Master Necromancer and a Combat Vampire Lord. A level 4 Master even with a 4++ save is only 245, and a Vampire Lord (Red Fury, Quick Blood, Armor of Destiny, Barded Steed) is 374 pts. That's JUST under the maximum for lords and gives me a solid caster to sit with the infantry core and a cavalry lord to allow my fast flankers to move at speed.

For a single lord set-up I still think the caster Vampire Lord is going to be most efficient for supporting an infantry centered list. Master of the Black Arts and the Black Periapt are amazing for keeping your power dice at levels you need, and Dark Acolyte with a Mortis Engine with Tome makes Invocations insanely easy to cast.


Pyre

 

[Count Darvaleth]

I haven't managed to pick up the new book yet. But, from what you have described it certainly seems like a decent option.

I played mostly Skeletons back in 6th, so I have PILES of dem bones! Sounds like the Master Necro will be a no-brainer choice for me at least.

You'll love it if you have lots of Skeletons. Plenty of Necromancers to top all units up, then the Master to raise them beyond their original size!

 

[Wargamer]

I'm thinking of using at 2500-3000pts a Master Necromancer with either a Level 1 or 2 Combat Vampire Lord or a Strigoi Ghoul King, using the Lord or King as General. But I'm hardly an expert.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

I'm thinking of using at 2500-3000pts a Master Necromancer with either a Level 1 or 2 Combat Vampire Lord or a Strigoi Ghoul King, using the Lord or King as General. But I'm hardly an expert.

Yeah, it's a shame we can't nominate the Master Necromancer as the general, as combat vampires are far more likely to find glorious death than their mortal companions. Still, I'm not complaining.

 

[Bravo_10]

We can't? On page 26 of the new Armybook, it says that "Your army's General must be a Wizard. If he is able to choose a spell lore, he must use the lore of Vampires." I don't see anything about the General needing to be a Vampire. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though that old rule has gone by the wayside.

In any case, I think I'll certainly be turning to the Master Necromancer as my go-to lord choice for one reason: cheap magic levels. I mean come on, 30+ points PER LEVEL for a Vampire Lord? That's absurdly expensive. A fully kitted out Vamp Lord will cost something in the neighborhood of an arm and a leg. If I can help it, I'm going to go for straight-up combat lords from here on out. With five attacks and the 'Hunger' rule to help them heal in close combat, they could be pretty potent fighters.

Also, one last thing: making a combat character the general is no longer such a risk for us. Check page 26, under the rules for the General. If the General is killed, the army must take a crumble test at the end of the phase in which he died. However, at the beginning of each following turn, if there's a character still alive who uses the Lore of Vampires, we don't crumble. At all.

 

[Mr Saturday]

This is exactly the kind of army I used to field in 6th and before. The easily replenished horde was my favourite version of the army, and became known to my gaming buddies as the 'porridge technique'. I'm very happy to hear it's on the cards once again. Damn, when will my book arrive? I mean, it's been on release for a whole day!

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I think the Master Necro is going to be one of our go to Lords. I certainly plan to have one supporting my general. As mentioned he is cheap, and it also allows me to concentrate my general on other things, knowing I have a decent backup should my general bite the dust.

 

[Vampire bk]

in 1000-1500 point games you DOMINATE because you have a 200 point level 4 wizard that raises
but anything above 1500 points has to be combat lords, in 2.5k I might take a cheapish vamp lord and get a level 4 necro with master of the dead but its also cc lords for me cause we dont crumble that bad anymore (and your a tough cookie with hunger and those huge bunkers of buffed skellies)

 

[Vampire Ron]

We can't? On page 26 of the new Armybook, it says that "Your army's General must be a Wizard. If he is able to choose a spell lore, he must use the lore of Vampires." I don't see anything about the General needing to be a Vampire. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though that old rule has gone by the wayside.

In any case, I think I'll certainly be turning to the Master Necromancer as my go-to lord choice for one reason: cheap magic levels. I mean come on, 30+ points PER LEVEL for a Vampire Lord? That's absurdly expensive. A fully kitted out Vamp Lord will cost something in the neighborhood of an arm and a leg. If I can help it, I'm going to go for straight-up combat lords from here on out. With five attacks and the 'Hunger' rule to help them heal in close combat, they could be pretty potent fighters.

Also, one last thing: making a combat character the general is no longer such a risk for us. Check page 26, under the rules for the General. If the General is killed, the army must take a crumble test at the end of the phase in which he died. However, at the beginning of each following turn, if there's a character still alive who uses the Lore of Vampires, we don't crumble. At all.

Unfortunately it doesn't bypass the fact that the guy with the highest leadership has to be the general... However, Master Necro's have higher leadership than Thralls, so in low points games, the Master Necro will almost always be the General anyway.

 

[Vampire bk]

we can easily bypass that rule by taking shadow/death on our lords?
this makes them uneligible for the gen pick so they are overlooked

 

[theangels77]

It looks like a return to the Good Old Fashioned Zombie / Skellie Tar-pit. I played a game yesterday under the new rules... I was able to Slaughter a DE hydra by using Raise dead in front of him, Raising Skellies from Nothing, Haulting the progress of the Hydra while terrorgheist came along and screeched His Head of... all this Equals Dead hydra. Best part is.. Those raised skellies don't count towards Victory Points under any Circumstances.... Boo YAH!!!!

 

[eggsPR]

we can easily bypass that rule by taking shadow/death on our lords?
this makes them uneligible for the gen pick so they are overlooked

Very interesting indeed. I wonder if the rules would deem the highest leadership without Lore of Vampire an invalid combination.

However if this works that'd be great!

 

[Vampire Ron]

we can easily bypass that rule by taking shadow/death on our lords?
this makes them uneligible for the gen pick so they are overlooked

Nope, exact wording is:

Your army's General must be a Wizard. If he is able to choose a spell lore, he must use the lore of vampires."

So your Vampire Lord must take Lore of the Vampires.

It looks like a return to the Good Old Fashioned Zombie / Skellie Tar-pit. I played a game yesterday under the new rules... I was able to Slaughter a DE hydra by using Raise dead in front of him, Raising Skellies from Nothing, Haulting the progress of the Hydra while terrorgheist came along and screeched His Head of... all this Equals Dead hydra. Best part is.. Those raised skellies don't count towards Victory Points under any Circumstances.... Boo YAH!!!!

I absolutely love that they don't give away victory points. It's basically a punch in the face to your opponent when they've fought through your tarpit.

 

[Bishop]

we can easily bypass that rule by taking shadow/death on our lords?
this makes them uneligible for the gen pick so they are overlooked

Nope, exact wording is:

Your army's General must be a Wizard. If he is able to choose a spell lore, he must use the lore of vampires."

So your Vampire Lord must take Lore of the Vampires.

Hmm. Ld could (again I dont have a book) force a Vamp Lord to be the General over a Master Necro.

However, if you took a Vamp Lord with Shadow/Death and then a Master Necro with Lore of Vampires... I think that would do it.

I'd assume that it must still meet the BRB requirements for Ld as well. But, armybook has precedence over BRB.

a) IMO, The General should have to be the caster with Lore of Vampires that has the highest Leadership.

b) Forcing it to be the caster with the highest leadership who must take the Lore of Vampires could very well force a Vampire Lord to take Lore of Vampires and make the Master Necro ineligible to be the general.

What is the exact wording?

 

[Vampire Ron]

I think it's perfectly clear that the highest leadership Wizard in the army must be the general, and he must also take the Lore of the Vampires. Just like Tomb Kings and the Lore of Nehekhara. Exact wording is:

Your army's General must be a Wizard. If he is able to choose a spell lore, he must use the lore of vampires.

 

[Bishop]

Yep. I think that would force a Vampire Lord to be the general (even if you didn't want it to be).

(This of course is assuming that a Vamp Lord has a higher Ld then a Master Necro, I haven't a book.. but I'd be VERY shocked if it wasn't. I'd guess Ld10 on the Vamp Lord and Ld7-8 on the Master Necro)

 

[Vampire Ron]

As I said, They have higher leadership than Thralls, and less than Wight Kings and Vampire Lords, which are all the same as in the old book. Just to avoid getting a warning for characteristics.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

This is exactly the kind of army I used to field in 6th and before. The easily replenished horde was my favourite version of the army, and became known to my gaming buddies as the 'porridge technique'.

This. This, this, this. :rofl2: Bloody hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

As I said, They have higher leadership than Thralls, and less than Wight Kings and Vampire Lords, which are all the same as in the old book. Just to avoid getting a warning for characteristics.

Whilst you might get a warning for posting things like exact points-values and the whole list of characteristics, individual things like this are fine. If you're still afraid of a warning, I'll say them instead!

Vampire Lords - Ld10

Ghoul Kings - Ld9

Master Necros - Ld8

I think Necros are Ld7, Vampires probably Ld8 or 7 (sorry book not to hand atm) but essentially if we take a Ghoul King or Vampire Lord, the Master Necromancer won't be the general. Shame, really. Still, NO CRUMBLE!

 

[Bishop]

Thanks Darvy.

And if you stated it Ron, I must have missed it. There's LOTS of traffic on here today. I can't read everything , though I do try.

 

[Vampire Ron]

Sorry, I only said they had more than Thralls Necros are 7, as are Vampires, Darvy.

 

[drmooreflava]

I think it depends on what kind of list you run. If you run a fast list, aoe spells arent as good. AKA varghulf, varghiests, terror gheist, black knights, dire wolves and a box of zombies would make your lvl 4 aoe magic kind of innefficient. But if you are going to go with the energizer battery powered undead army (which may become to go to army for those without the creative mind) I'd say mortis engine, two naked lvl 4 necros, and 3 lvl 1 vampes for fighty purposes, masses of zombies, skeletons and crypt horrors (the horror :O) would be a nasty list to fight against. Now to be honest, I don't see a magically effecient army without Master of the Black Arts on your side. I played a match today, didn't roll above the total of 5 on the winds of magic. Only Vampire lords can have MotBA, making vampire lords extremely reliable in magic phase.

 

[horrid]

I haven't read my new book yet(too busy playing with new models and looking at the pictures) but without even looking at the profile I know I'm more comfortable with the idea of a dedicated caster working in tandem with a more combat oriented counterpart.

Last edition I resented pumping so many additional points into already points intensive vampire characters. Out of the box vampires had such great statlines it seemed wasteful not to be putting them into combats. The other side of the double edged sword was that once committed their spell casting could be compromised.

I think over the course of this army book I am seriously considering a no vampire build just to see what might happen with a few necromancers with some wight kings (or maybe wraith or banshee characters) to see how that might work out. I might get around to reading the rules and discover this is a bonehead idea but thematically I am liking the idea.

 

[HERO]

I'm currently maxed out on my Lord choices.

I have a Blood Dragon Lord and a Lv.3 Master Necro in my army..

Vampire Lord
Red Fury, Quickblood
Heavy Armor, Shield, on a barded horse
Dragonhelm, Ogre Blade, 4+ Ward, and PoFool

Lv.3 Master Necro
Book of Arkhan

This comes out to exactly 623, which is 25% of my 2500pt lists