Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book
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To be honest, from what I have seen so far, I think VC will be very much in line with other 8th ed. books. Obviously it's too soon to tell, but I see a few deserved nerfs and several very exciting additions. I think our versatility has improved a lot and in the hands of a good general, that is a very powerful thing.
As for the Flayed Hauberk being gone, I'm not surprised given there is a 2+ AS item in the BRB. They are trying to bring everyone's items in line and I think that one was probably on top of the list to go. The new sword is rubbish? Maybe, I'm sure it has a niche application but in general I'd say at least half of the magic items in the new books have been terrible. Is that a good thing? No. It certainly leaves us on level ground though.
I like the list. It has some nice items and looks useful. I'll wait and see what the synergy with the rest of the army is like before I get too excited one way or the other.
As for the Flayed Hauberk being gone, I'm not surprised given there is a 2+ AS item in the BRB. They are trying to bring everyone's items in line and I think that one was probably on top of the list to go. The new sword is rubbish? Maybe, I'm sure it has a niche application but in general I'd say at least half of the magic items in the new books have been terrible. Is that a good thing? No. It certainly leaves us on level ground though.
I like the list. It has some nice items and looks useful. I'll wait and see what the synergy with the rest of the army is like before I get too excited one way or the other.
I have to say I'm VERY disappointed in all these rumors. There's little there with any great amount of synergy, most of the things that didn't really need to be nerfed/fixed are getting it, and none of the things that needed to be fixed are getting a real look. Loosing the Helm of Command is incredibly painful when considered in the light of the rest of the army. I'm fine with low WS if you give me something to help counter it, even a counter with some fairly notable limitations.
The Throne and the Engine look interesting, but neither really meshes well with the army. The regeneration aura of the Engine will actually discourage the use of Skeletons (no Ward and Regen saves), and the Battle of Wills from the throne will require lists to be built around the Throne to really have any great effect. The two monstrous infantry units look cute, but they're actually hurt by combo charging with most of our core because of crumbling. Sure they might charge a flank and kill more enemy models than you would otherwise, but if you're loosing 10-12 skeletons all the MI are really doing is keeping you at average not helping in any way.
Now all of this comes with a HUGE grain of salt: I want to see the book before I start really whining about anything. There are ways I could see all of this making for a great army, little rules like Vampires helping prevent crumlbing to some degree or a rule similar to "My Will Be Done" from the TK book.
Pyre
The Throne and the Engine look interesting, but neither really meshes well with the army. The regeneration aura of the Engine will actually discourage the use of Skeletons (no Ward and Regen saves), and the Battle of Wills from the throne will require lists to be built around the Throne to really have any great effect. The two monstrous infantry units look cute, but they're actually hurt by combo charging with most of our core because of crumbling. Sure they might charge a flank and kill more enemy models than you would otherwise, but if you're loosing 10-12 skeletons all the MI are really doing is keeping you at average not helping in any way.
Now all of this comes with a HUGE grain of salt: I want to see the book before I start really whining about anything. There are ways I could see all of this making for a great army, little rules like Vampires helping prevent crumlbing to some degree or a rule similar to "My Will Be Done" from the TK book.
Pyre
I think it still will be the case, they will just make it like WoC with Gifts of chaos and you have points to spend between the 2.
I am still not convinced, I have see allot of good things go and apart from the new models giving us more choice and the new general rule which means we are not done when he dies I have not see anything much of worth.
But magic items inline is a bad thing, every army needs its own things to give it character, if we are all using the same magic items we may as well all just start using empire and be done with it.
But you see great things like a few of the tomb kings items or even the hellheart from ogres, that item in itself cost me an entire tournament, not an exaggeration, I only lost the one match and was left that amount of points from drawing on first.
I don't want to see everyone reduced to rubbish though either, giving us crap does not make things better.
We lost all our weapons, armour and talismans straight off the bat and most over everything else we have been given is lack luster or the rubbish we did not use the first time around.
The screaming banner was not much use in this edition either anyway with roll a extra dice and discard the lowest when taking fear tests, fear has not been good since 7th edition.
TK got the helm of command equivelent on ever tomb king and tomb price which could then fight in combat, what do we get?..... Sod all.
If we have lost Drak after all this regen popping up everywhere after they just made the model and I will be mailing a Box full of crap to head office. :slapface:
I am still not convinced, I have see allot of good things go and apart from the new models giving us more choice and the new general rule which means we are not done when he dies I have not see anything much of worth.
But magic items inline is a bad thing, every army needs its own things to give it character, if we are all using the same magic items we may as well all just start using empire and be done with it.
But you see great things like a few of the tomb kings items or even the hellheart from ogres, that item in itself cost me an entire tournament, not an exaggeration, I only lost the one match and was left that amount of points from drawing on first.
I don't want to see everyone reduced to rubbish though either, giving us crap does not make things better.
We lost all our weapons, armour and talismans straight off the bat and most over everything else we have been given is lack luster or the rubbish we did not use the first time around.
The screaming banner was not much use in this edition either anyway with roll a extra dice and discard the lowest when taking fear tests, fear has not been good since 7th edition.
TK got the helm of command equivelent on ever tomb king and tomb price which could then fight in combat, what do we get?..... Sod all.
If we have lost Drak after all this regen popping up everywhere after they just made the model and I will be mailing a Box full of crap to head office. :slapface:
Pladvoncarstein
Ghoul
Duke Danse Macabre said:9 or 10 is inline?
You have to remember we have gear and blood traits, thats 2 entirely different things, gear itself there is lacking anything to really want at all, nothing with ba wow factor that has been seen in the other books apart from a sword that may kill us..... If thats out gear options they are shameful.
Complete compared to what?.... Something you have never seen?... There is allot missing and unless we are still missing a few items we have already taken a big hit.
At the very least there better be a gear upgrade on character profiles.
I have to ask, are you just on a hunt going from army to army cheering for a nerf or do you have something else apart from cheering for people fears as things get worse the 3rd consecutive time in a row?
I'll miss flayed Hauberk if its gone, only way to really protect vamp heros as it stood with a decent armour save.
So our new sword is a load of rubish.... Great, who am I to complain about the TK equivelent for 5 points more? Can choose to hit every model in base contact, has a +2 strength and Heroic Killing blow slapped with a few extra rules in case he is on a chariot.
As it stand I like the new models but the items and rules I have heard are very disappointing, perhaps VC is to become a display army?.... At least the Zombie Dragon will have company then.
I just said that the powers list looked incomplete not that it was. I dont move from army to army crying for a nerf. I dont require a nerf for my lizardmen afterall as I can win and lose with them. Vamps last book was broken even with the so called hit in 8th. Call it luck if you will but getting lots of power dice and spamming 1 or 2 dice on vanhels is just too easy. Even when trying not to do that helm of command is like an autowin button when combined with ghouls/graveguard. Not to mention the OP terrorgheist that scream needs bringing down to 2d6 + 4 instead of 6 (i know it gets weaker when it loses wounds. but spam invo and hes full strengh all the time) I have not seen anything rumour that makes us any weaker then the other armies even those that havnt been updated yet.
From what we now know it's not too bad. I expected far worse seeing how much the other armies were butchered in their magic items deposit.
I still really dislike what they did to magic items anyway, it was what gave armies character and differentiated them. Now most races run along with the same magic items which is very strange IMO.
I didn't expect a real fix for the most glaring issues undead suffer from, especially after seeing TK, and expected to put my VC out for sale so I guess that's why I'm satisfied.
If the book comes out and it has some unforeseen extras I will jump with joy. Now I'm neutral rules-wise but happy models-wise.
I still really dislike what they did to magic items anyway, it was what gave armies character and differentiated them. Now most races run along with the same magic items which is very strange IMO.
I didn't expect a real fix for the most glaring issues undead suffer from, especially after seeing TK, and expected to put my VC out for sale so I guess that's why I'm satisfied.
If the book comes out and it has some unforeseen extras I will jump with joy. Now I'm neutral rules-wise but happy models-wise.
I expect the helm is just gone, and that invocation spam won't be as easy.
That said, yeah, the list looks incomplete. Pretty much every army gets some big expensive banner for a BSB, and as mentioned there's MotBA which we've already heard about and isn't here yet. And most armies get some king of potent anti-magic item these days as well, which I don't see yet.
I wouldn't get bent out of shape yet, but I also wouldn't get my hopes up regarding having amazing items or separate pools for bloodlines as we had in the past.
That said, yeah, the list looks incomplete. Pretty much every army gets some big expensive banner for a BSB, and as mentioned there's MotBA which we've already heard about and isn't here yet. And most armies get some king of potent anti-magic item these days as well, which I don't see yet.
I wouldn't get bent out of shape yet, but I also wouldn't get my hopes up regarding having amazing items or separate pools for bloodlines as we had in the past.
I just said that the powers list looked incomplete not that it was. I dont move from army to army crying for a nerf. I dont require a nerf for my lizardmen afterall as I can win and lose with them. Vamps last book was broken even with the so called hit in 8th. Call it luck if you will but getting lots of power dice and spamming 1 or 2 dice on vanhels is just too easy. Even when trying not to do that helm of command is like an autowin button when combined with ghouls/graveguard. Not to mention the OP terrorgheist that scream needs bringing down to 2d6 + 4 instead of 6 (i know it gets weaker when it loses wounds. but spam invo and hes full strengh all the time) I have not seen anything rumour that makes us any weaker then the other armies even those that havnt been updated yet.
A couple spamable spells was most of what we had magic wise, all our casters cost a fortune as they have to be combat as well and not great at either one I may add when you compare on points you have to spend for it, DE get infinite over dice due to their abilities, HE get ASF across the army, +1 rank in spears and +1 to all casts, loads of armies have big advantages over others, does not mean its wrong, after all the spells are not damage spells, 90% of the time they are used to return troops that died horribly due to our crumble rule trying to give us a fighting chance.
Helm of command?.... Passing along you WS but the user can not fight or he can not..... Thats not an auto win, TK can do that for every unit if they like and be in combat.
Ghouls and GG, our only 2 solid choices as it stands,The TG is fine as is appart from its laughable save, it is not much cop in combat, is huge and hard to move around the board and easy to shoot and wound, so what if it can scream, its its one ability which seems to be becoming common in our army.
Spam Invocation?.... You mean use all our dice to cast spells just to keep our army going turn after turn due to crumble whilst others rain destruction down on us why we hope to use all our Power dice just to be able to last the next round of combat?
The current selection they have gave us in Magic items is to be honest the crap from the list.
We lost those we liked the best, yes we still have rod of flaming death which is good but helm of command, flayed hauberk, sword of kings, its just been butchered horribly and they gave us a sword as rumor has it kills its user if he does not cause a wound...... Thats exactly what I want on my 400+ point lord.
At the moment they have give us good models which is great, book and rule wise however I am setting myself up for another disappointment which seems to be Games Workshops chief ability nowadays.
A couple spamable spells was most of what we had magic wise, all our casters cost a fortune as they have to be combat as well and not great at either one I may add when you compare on points you have to spend for it, DE get infinite over dice due to their abilities, HE get ASF across the army, +1 rank in spears and +1 to all casts, loads of armies have big advantages over others, does not mean its wrong, after all the spells are not damage spells, 90% of the time they are used to return troops that died horribly due to our crumble rule trying to give us a fighting chance.
Helm of command?.... Passing along you WS but the user can not fight or he can not..... Thats not an auto win, TK can do that for every unit if they like and be in combat.
Ghouls and GG, our only 2 solid choices as it stands,The TG is fine as is appart from its laughable save, it is not much cop in combat, is huge and hard to move around the board and easy to shoot and wound, so what if it can scream, its its one ability which seems to be becoming common in our army.
Spam Invocation?.... You mean use all our dice to cast spells just to keep our army going turn after turn due to crumble whilst others rain destruction down on us why we hope to use all our Power dice just to be able to last the next round of combat?
The current selection they have gave us in Magic items is to be honest the crap from the list.
We lost those we liked the best, yes we still have rod of flaming death which is good but helm of command, flayed hauberk, sword of kings, its just been butchered horribly and they gave us a sword as rumor has it kills its user if he does not cause a wound...... Thats exactly what I want on my 400+ point lord.
At the moment they have give us good models which is great, book and rule wise however I am setting myself up for another disappointment which seems to be Games Workshops chief ability nowadays.
At the moment I would not get too wound up. It looks like some items have not been listed, so the ones people are getting upset about might turn up in the end.
At any rate, I have updated the first post in the announcement thread with the latest info:
https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Rumour-Compilation-Vampire-Counts-New-Release-14th-Jan-2012
At any rate, I have updated the first post in the announcement thread with the latest info:
https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Rumour-Compilation-Vampire-Counts-New-Release-14th-Jan-2012
Pladvoncarstein
Ghoul
May be I have just been lucky then with my wins. For me Ive always won with a timly helm of command buff or raising enough models back to keep the enemy in place (exactly what zombies and to an extent skelies are great at) Back to the terrorghiest its not so easy to shoot down with toughness 6 (except cannons).
Our combat lords are still gonna be tough to beat (asf red fury etc) just have to wait and see if we get 100pts to split between powers and magic items. I think it could be 100 pts for all due to us now getting access to mundane armour and such. although someone farther up posted it would be 100 of each. Which isnt really fair so maybe thats what makes us different.
Our combat lords are still gonna be tough to beat (asf red fury etc) just have to wait and see if we get 100pts to split between powers and magic items. I think it could be 100 pts for all due to us now getting access to mundane armour and such. although someone farther up posted it would be 100 of each. Which isnt really fair so maybe thats what makes us different.
Well if you are using zombies to hold things up and its working I would say a fair bit of luck at the very least is responsible.
The Terrorghiest is toughness 6 yes but it also has the largest base in the game, any regular guy can wound it on a 6+ and it has next to no save and crumble just wipes it out.
Well with the new WS and Initiative buffs I would agree,its good to see some really heavy hitting lords again, I just hope there are more characters than they have said so far, 2 seems a big let down.
If each bloodline could be represented by at least 1 guy we would be happy.
Well when there is not that many blood traits left at least you know if it is 100 points each which nearly everyone has said otherwise you will not be pushed to take some things over others.
The Terrorghiest is toughness 6 yes but it also has the largest base in the game, any regular guy can wound it on a 6+ and it has next to no save and crumble just wipes it out.
Well with the new WS and Initiative buffs I would agree,its good to see some really heavy hitting lords again, I just hope there are more characters than they have said so far, 2 seems a big let down.
If each bloodline could be represented by at least 1 guy we would be happy.
Well when there is not that many blood traits left at least you know if it is 100 points each which nearly everyone has said otherwise you will not be pushed to take some things over others.
Pladvoncarstein
Ghoul
Duke Danse Macabre said:
There is bound to be more characters. All the von carsteins (possible only one version of manfred though) , plus the ones mentioned. Not sure about other bloddline lords. I am curious to see what they have done with vlad and Konrad they were quite powerful before
also with the zombies i just take loads they seem to last atleast 2 turns 3-4 with decent winds of magic. I can take even more now at only 3pts each and can get them regen with the mortis engine
Not seen any yet though so at this point its just a hope.
Need a Necrarch as they have no been represented in any of the new gear, A strigoi would be nice but I have my doubts we would get one but if the model theme is anything to go off you never know, Blood Knights we all want, maybe they will cater to the crowd on this one, Lahmian however there are very few they could make and there is only one prior and you can not really field the head of a bloodline, It like fielding Khorn himself, just add the win button where you like.
Vlad was under powered for who and what he is, especially when he was a sub par caster and no armour, all he had was a average ward and the I come back once rule.
Vlad was a great tactician, a strong caster and a powerful combat opponent, for those reasons I expect him to be better in each set above the base lord build templates.
Konnrad on the other hand was ok, he was good to have in combat for a round or 2 but the lad dies if you take your eyes off of him.
Still though, I don't like losing 30 models to combat rez a turn, I want to use magic to do things with, not try and fight a losing battle on the zombie horde.
And with no more spam it will be impossible.
Against State troops sure why not but anything with more than one attack or a horde unit with spears and you may as well not bother turning up.
Need a Necrarch as they have no been represented in any of the new gear, A strigoi would be nice but I have my doubts we would get one but if the model theme is anything to go off you never know, Blood Knights we all want, maybe they will cater to the crowd on this one, Lahmian however there are very few they could make and there is only one prior and you can not really field the head of a bloodline, It like fielding Khorn himself, just add the win button where you like.
Vlad was under powered for who and what he is, especially when he was a sub par caster and no armour, all he had was a average ward and the I come back once rule.
Vlad was a great tactician, a strong caster and a powerful combat opponent, for those reasons I expect him to be better in each set above the base lord build templates.
Konnrad on the other hand was ok, he was good to have in combat for a round or 2 but the lad dies if you take your eyes off of him.
Still though, I don't like losing 30 models to combat rez a turn, I want to use magic to do things with, not try and fight a losing battle on the zombie horde.
And with no more spam it will be impossible.
Against State troops sure why not but anything with more than one attack or a horde unit with spears and you may as well not bother turning up.
Pladvoncarstein said:
You can make zombies last for a few turns if you take enough of them but they are not worth the points as they die to easily.
You will need at least 50 of them and that is 200 points for a throwaway unit that you will have to throw alot of your PD at each magic phase just to keep it alive.
If you factor the raising we can do into the equation you will also have to factor in the additional kills the enemy unit could gain by using their PD to buff the units... and each of those kills would multiply into two due to crumble.
From what I've gathered from Warseer, and other forums. The list is incomplete. The flag of the blood keep, is one indication, the flying vampiric power that is missing is another indication of this.
Also, lords are still supposed to have 100 pts items AND 100 pts powers. With the points listed for the powers we know, it has to be incomplete... Else a lord would take almost all the powers
I've also herd some rumors floating around, that our BSB is getting some new effect...
Also, lords are still supposed to have 100 pts items AND 100 pts powers. With the points listed for the powers we know, it has to be incomplete... Else a lord would take almost all the powers
I've also herd some rumors floating around, that our BSB is getting some new effect...
Pietr Von Carstein
Varghulf
texhnology said:
The guy who said that was hardly reliable. There is no way that our BSB would ignore crumble.
It was just one of the things that was playtested, not necessary the thing that made it into the AB.
Pietr Von Carstein
Varghulf
No one knows what may have been play tested, and the guy who brought that up just said that some guy in his gw said it.
From what I have read in warseer they know no more than we do, its all theory, complaining and talking about things that will never see the light of day.
Has anyone else heard anything that could be solid as of yet?
Has anyone else heard anything that could be solid as of yet?
Pladvoncarstein
Ghoul
texhnology said:Also, lords are still supposed to have 100 pts items AND 100 pts powers. With the points listed for the powers we know, it has to be incomplete... Else a lord would take almost all the powers
I'
Maybe there isnt a point alocation for powers maybe a vampire hero can take only one and a lord can take 2. unless its 100pts for powers and magic items altogether and its not 1 or 2 powers only you gonna see somthing thats more cheese then the supposedly unkillable dreadlord.
Any im off on holiday for a few days now so you wont see me screaming for nerfs for a while (lucky you)
Well it is said that lords have 100 pts powers, and 100 pts items. Its not shared, it's separate. And that is from several different sources
Looks like the new book and miniatures are up for pre-order on Maelstrom already, but no sign of the cards.
Zhatan said:
Precisely, this combined with the horrible old models has been the reason I haven't used zombies for a long time. I really wish they'd do something cool with them as they are such an essential part of VC IMO. The whole army is bad enough as it is with the crumbling but for what zombies can potentially do it's just not worth taking them.
Same goes for Fell Bats, Bat Swarms and Dire Wolves. I used to use those units quite a lot, von Carsteins even had a summon bats/wolves ability that was great for annoying enemy units.
They are trying to counter all these toned down troops with the Horde rule and by adding big shiny kits/monsters/war machines but that's not going to work.
I don't expect elite Undead troops; fluff-wise they should be weak but they should outnumber and be able to be raised back without it costing us too much.
The balance is really gone from games, I notice such a difference between playing my VC, DE and Skaven on average rolls with normal non-killer army lists it is ridiculous.
Guy I know had an all gobbo army with huge Horde blocks and mangler squigs who continued to pound the crap out of anyone if he rolles average. He didn't think the Horde rule was the problem so I took him on with my Skaven and pounded him into dust with Skavenslaves.
Armies such as these VC can't do anything against. You will see your units disappear off the table within two rounds and all your magic is hopelessly put into trying to keep them to some resemblance of a unit which in the end is a wasted effort.
You are pushed into taking elite units and/or monsters that way and thats not what attracted me to VC. I want shambling hordes.
Still I stand by what I said; it could have been far worse seeing how my friend is faring with his TK...
Pietr Von Carstein
Varghulf
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