Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book
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Releonhardt
Skeleton
Oh yesss... and also oh no, I will be the first mackem victim of the new horde of undead, and if walach AND krell are around... I'm crying, especially with dukes blood knight horde!
Grish said:
I hope you are right Grish. Some variations in army builds and viable tactics would be most welcome, and it even seems like they have attempted to please both the Sylvania fans and the Bloodline fans to a certain extent. It is at least a small step towards bringing the fluff of the Bloodlines back into the game again.
Overall I'm not extremely exited by what I've seen so far, but I still look forwards to play test the new book and to see if there are indeed many more viable army builds that will stand the test of time.
I was hoping for better zombies/skelles this time around though (yes, I know we have "better" zombies), but I do like the fact that Ghouls are no longer proper undead.
Nice IoN analyzis btw. It can make things more interesting the way it is now it seems.
N.I.B said:
I was thinking of the ability to raise new ones in this case, but Undead probably still affects them in the sense that they are Unbreakable, Immune to Panic, Unstable etc.. Damn.. I was really hoping for more "fluffy" Ghouls, but at least it is a step in the "right" direction if it is true that you can'r raise new ones etc...
piratemonkey124 said:
Why yes I did read the rules so I posted on it be that I disagree with it and that is is a horrible shadow of its former glory.
For that spell we know the complete rules.
You sire however have no manners or class so until you learn to speak to others with respect that everyone else here seems to be able afford to others please take your whining over what people say and keep your "Wah Burgers" to yourself....
If all casters have the spell its nice but still its harder to cast and on low level casters the new plus your magic level for how many summoned is not that useful as now one caster can not spam that one spell.
2 dice on a low level caster before would make sure you could manage it, 2 dice now it is not a certain thing like before and can fall flat on its face.
The older cast at least would mean even after a horrible combat you could recoup your losses and stand a chance and fighting back.
10.5 average on a skellie unit to last to your next friendly magic phase is not enough with how much they crumble.
For GG though that will be fine but you see where I am coming from.
The range bit though does really sting, it could at least allow us to target a single unit instead of the bubble.
He is not in the book mate.
Would of loved to of seen some of the old characters come back.
I only have 13 blood knights, when I have 30 I will stop buying them.
I am looking forwards to being able to use them in huge games though, that will be truly spectacular.
The Fluff at this point though I don't see coming back,. that was a golden age.
From here forwards I see them adding and changing more stuff each time it is redone but no glory days returning with all the big names that accompany it.
I do love the new models though even if I don't like what I am hearing rules wise.
Also I love the art in the new book.... The cover... not so much. :frown:
They probs just shoved on the undead rule but if they still crumble but not raisable I will be annoyed.....
Eh I still don't see eye to eye with you on IoN.
When you are comparing versions of IoN, are you comparing the 7th ed. Vampire book, and 7th ed. Main book rules to the new 8th ed. VC book and 8th ed. MRB rules?
I am comparing 7th ed. VC book, 8th ed. MRB to 8th ed. VC book and 8th ed. MRB.
If you are comparing the 8th ed. MRB IoN then I do not see how you spam this, unless you are taking 1 or 2 necromancers and spamming it through them.
Because the old IoN was targetted per unit and the new one is AoE, that dramatically changes our dynamics. You can't compare 7th ed. Tactics and list and just add the new spells onto them, if that is what you're doing. If you can envision multiple units, of two grave guard and 2 units of zombies on the flanks, and all getting d6+caster level per IoN... I mean that's some real power. Depending on the list, Black Periapt might actually be good if you let their spell through in order to get a burst IoN out on your phase.
Using 2 dice with a lvl1 caster = 83% chance of success with the 6" burst IoN. That's good odds.
I'm stoked!
When you are comparing versions of IoN, are you comparing the 7th ed. Vampire book, and 7th ed. Main book rules to the new 8th ed. VC book and 8th ed. MRB rules?
I am comparing 7th ed. VC book, 8th ed. MRB to 8th ed. VC book and 8th ed. MRB.
If you are comparing the 8th ed. MRB IoN then I do not see how you spam this, unless you are taking 1 or 2 necromancers and spamming it through them.
Because the old IoN was targetted per unit and the new one is AoE, that dramatically changes our dynamics. You can't compare 7th ed. Tactics and list and just add the new spells onto them, if that is what you're doing. If you can envision multiple units, of two grave guard and 2 units of zombies on the flanks, and all getting d6+caster level per IoN... I mean that's some real power. Depending on the list, Black Periapt might actually be good if you let their spell through in order to get a burst IoN out on your phase.
Using 2 dice with a lvl1 caster = 83% chance of success with the 6" burst IoN. That's good odds.
I'm stoked!
No I am comparing it as it stands now with our 7th edition book under 8th edition rules.
The fact is our magic is going to be less effective and harder to pull off than it was prior.
I am saying it now can not be spammed where as before you could.
Now you get a limited use radius cast which if it is dispelled your up a certain creek without a paddle.
Yes we have changed, before we could space out our army and cast what we liked and march, now we have a bubble march so our entire force has to cluster together.
What I am doing is comparing it to the old and saying how is it not an improvement, you need a direct comparison so you compare to the most recent otherwise I may as well compare it to whatever I feel like.
Everthing needs a point of origin, it is the same spell with the same name but a different rule so of course it will be compared.
Also In don't think having to store dice with a over pointed item people openly dislike letting their spells through hoping to cast a raise spell which we hope will not make us explode and they don't dispel.
That tactic is right up there with advancing under cover of daylight towards a gun emplacement which in fact we are doing in a very large bulk of troops centered around 1 guy and a giant mortis engine if we elect to take it.
So what do we do when we want to raise out cav but they are not going to be in range due to the increased cost of the spell?..... Nothing.
The fact is our magic is going to be less effective and harder to pull off than it was prior.
I am saying it now can not be spammed where as before you could.
Now you get a limited use radius cast which if it is dispelled your up a certain creek without a paddle.
Yes we have changed, before we could space out our army and cast what we liked and march, now we have a bubble march so our entire force has to cluster together.
What I am doing is comparing it to the old and saying how is it not an improvement, you need a direct comparison so you compare to the most recent otherwise I may as well compare it to whatever I feel like.
Everthing needs a point of origin, it is the same spell with the same name but a different rule so of course it will be compared.
Also In don't think having to store dice with a over pointed item people openly dislike letting their spells through hoping to cast a raise spell which we hope will not make us explode and they don't dispel.
That tactic is right up there with advancing under cover of daylight towards a gun emplacement which in fact we are doing in a very large bulk of troops centered around 1 guy and a giant mortis engine if we elect to take it.
So what do we do when we want to raise out cav but they are not going to be in range due to the increased cost of the spell?..... Nothing.
Technically, we CAN spam it now, but do you? I do not. I feel it is a waste of power dice to try spamming that spell, for reasons already listed. If you do in your game, it will be a loss to your style of play.
I think because it raises way more models, we will use this spell more than we have been using the previous IoN; this is based on my play experiences. I find VHD, Curse, Wind, SUH are all much better uses of powerdice than IoN. If you rely on the basic spell of IoN and spam it, it will affect your game.
For my game, I will use the new IoN more. It has more bang for the buck in terms of powerdice.
6th ed. was a game of Skirmishers, with way more emphasis on Movement, and we did just fine with a March bubble. We are more mobile in this edition, in an edition that doesn't rely as much on Skirmishing, fast cav, or movement in general.
In my group, people love to throw 6 dice at a huge spell. I'm left with dispel dice numerous times; Periapt would certainly help there.
Cannons never worry me. The only things to worry about are things like Varghulfs, Coaches, or other high cost per wound models. They can shoot my infantry all they like.
I think because it raises way more models, we will use this spell more than we have been using the previous IoN; this is based on my play experiences. I find VHD, Curse, Wind, SUH are all much better uses of powerdice than IoN. If you rely on the basic spell of IoN and spam it, it will affect your game.
For my game, I will use the new IoN more. It has more bang for the buck in terms of powerdice.
6th ed. was a game of Skirmishers, with way more emphasis on Movement, and we did just fine with a March bubble. We are more mobile in this edition, in an edition that doesn't rely as much on Skirmishing, fast cav, or movement in general.
In my group, people love to throw 6 dice at a huge spell. I'm left with dispel dice numerous times; Periapt would certainly help there.
Cannons never worry me. The only things to worry about are things like Varghulfs, Coaches, or other high cost per wound models. They can shoot my infantry all they like.
By the way, I was pretty convinced of using a corpse cart, but when I realized it was a charriot... It will move only 4 inches while the majority of the army marches at 8 inches and its main effect is at 6 inches (only the balefire is not that affected -but still affected). Making all the army go slow just to keep the pace? Try to Vanhel it every magic phase so it reaches the other units? I don't like the sound of this... :'(
On multiple casters but then you are going to be realying on low level casters and you can only manage 3 casts or so.
I only spam when required when it is dispelled or I have a horrible round of combat after I just got hit with a truck...... Normally in the form of a 4 strong Tzeench chosen unit with a 3+ ward......
Some times you may have to really on it.
In my eyes our best old spell was VHD, it had so much going for it and a good casting value, it will be missed.
This edition though is a mish mash between deathstar hammer and monster hammer.
Its all huge units and fast flanking.... Our flanking is no longer really fast unless you really on those with the vampire rule which is a shame to have to after those wonderful new models.
Some spells are played like that but for the ones that aren't a 55 point save some for later item is a bit of an expensive waste.
They will shoot you and you big new shiny models, mortars and hell baster rocket batteries ripping appart your clustered units, thats what the big concern will be no with no banner to protect from range.
I was happy just using Banner of Blood Keep but now thats gone its going to sting getting across the field.
I only spam when required when it is dispelled or I have a horrible round of combat after I just got hit with a truck...... Normally in the form of a 4 strong Tzeench chosen unit with a 3+ ward......
Some times you may have to really on it.
In my eyes our best old spell was VHD, it had so much going for it and a good casting value, it will be missed.
This edition though is a mish mash between deathstar hammer and monster hammer.
Its all huge units and fast flanking.... Our flanking is no longer really fast unless you really on those with the vampire rule which is a shame to have to after those wonderful new models.
Some spells are played like that but for the ones that aren't a 55 point save some for later item is a bit of an expensive waste.
They will shoot you and you big new shiny models, mortars and hell baster rocket batteries ripping appart your clustered units, thats what the big concern will be no with no banner to protect from range.
I was happy just using Banner of Blood Keep but now thats gone its going to sting getting across the field.
El Syf
Vargheist
banner of bloood keeps gone? seriously? well that makes blood knights a bit screwed. doubtless i'll still take them and watch them get obliterated in turn 1
NicholasLeMort
Skeleton
El Syf said:
HERO seems to be right, apparently it is now an upgrade for ONLY a Blood Knight unit and is said to still cost 37.5 slaves, not a real banner that a BSB can take anymore
Thats what I had meant, it states that it is a Blood Knight only upgrade in earlier pages.....
There are allot of pages.
We only have the screaming banner and the banner of barrows, though I hope the elves lose banner of the world dragon when their time comes!
There are allot of pages.
We only have the screaming banner and the banner of barrows, though I hope the elves lose banner of the world dragon when their time comes!
Are you going to contribute something or have you just come to insult and troll people?.....
So anyway whats the words on the BSB, do we know if it has additional effects or not as of yet for this anti crumbling bubble we have been hearing about as it does have me rather curious.
So anyway whats the words on the BSB, do we know if it has additional effects or not as of yet for this anti crumbling bubble we have been hearing about as it does have me rather curious.
Someone gave him +1 rep for that post...Duke Danse Macabre said:
I read on Warseer that it does the same thing that the TK BSB does. I think that means it isn't changing, but I don't have a TK book with me so I could be wrong.
Duke Danse Macabre said:
Since my main opponent is my brother who plays WoC, my advice for dealing with chosen, or indeed any unit you aren't confident going toe to toe with, is not to hope for the best and fix it afterwards. Make them useless before they ever get powered up or see combat. A cheap hero, level 1 would do, with shadow or loremaster for metal is the way to go. Searing Doom terrifies chaos players, and even if you don't get it through, it's because he will have thrown a lot of dispel dice at it.
With shadow i have a nice story. For an experiment my brother one day decided to use a horde of HW+S warriors with the mark of tzeentch. Thus giving them 3+ armour, 5+ parry and 3 ranks worth of str 4 attacks still.:O While i still lost that game, those warriors never saw combat because i kept hitting them with miasma and cutting their movement. A very underestimated spell which you can easily cast on 2 dice, or even 1 if it's going spare.
The Dead of Night said:
I noticed but it was another new member so I assumed a friend.
Getting off topic though.
Fighting chaos toe to toe is generally bad but sometimes it has to be done.
I use a few list variations but I don't pick things before a battle depending on who I play, I think tailoring your lists is not in the spirit of the game.
When I do have Lore of metal though as my fav four are Vamps, Death, Shadow and Metal, Especially in storm of magic its great, miss the old lore for 7th when it used to mess with cannons.
I had meant 40 strong unit though, I just noticed it missed off the "0".... Fail.
Suppose with the changes though I may preference GG with Hand Weapons and Shields with the Razor Standard for the extra -1 to armour......
Then I will not need to pay 240 points for a 6+ regeneration from the mortis engine.
Well it will be disappointing if the BSB has the same effects as the tomb kings.
Just a -1 dead.
Duke Danse Macabre said:Thats what I had meant, it states that it is a Blood Knight only upgrade in earlier pages.....
There are allot of pages.
We only have the screaming banner and the banner of barrows, though I hope the elves lose banner of the world dragon when their time comes!
I don't think High Elves will lose Battle Banner of Banner of the World Dragon. Those 2 are the most iconic ones, been around for 3-4 editions.
HERO said:Duke Danse Macabre said:Thats what I had meant, it states that it is a Blood Knight only upgrade in earlier pages.....
There are allot of pages.
We only have the screaming banner and the banner of barrows, though I hope the elves lose banner of the world dragon when their time comes!
I don't think High Elves will lose Battle Banner of Banner of the World Dragon. Those 2 are the most iconic ones, been around for 3-4 editions.
I'm hoping!
If whats happened is anything to go by elves and chaos will be hit hard provided mat ward is nowhere in sight....
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